For context, we’re both past the 30-year mark, with myself in my mids and him pushing 40. We’ve known each other from Uni, have been best friends since, and the entire thing pretty much turned into a siblinghood, with his family sort of “adopting” me (I’m perpetually invited to all of their family events and gatherings, his parents love having me around, etc.) We’ve been there for eachother through some of our worst times, and we got along really well.
That is, until the Pandemic hit. This has been going on for a while now, but it started getting more pronounced during the Pandemic, when he went from sharing edgy memes to expressing belief in the principles behind those memes (think “I identify as an attack helicopter,” “immigrants are exclusively to blame for the downfall of countries,” 4chan type jokes about minorities, etc.).
On my end, I tried to discuss these things with him at first, trying to get a sense of why he was doubling down on these things, and the closest I could come to understand it is that it’s a relatively irrational fear, fuelled by his tendency to not really explore the veracity of the news he reads - as an example related to his transphobia, it’s like he refuses to accept that sex and gender are not inextricably linked to one another, not on a logical basis, but on a “I feel this is incorrect” basis.
Things got pretty tense back in 2022, when I felt the need to call a time off on our friendship for almost an entire year. I just couldn’t play it cool when he randomly blurted out something profoundly inconsiderate and devoid of empathy. Conversations turned from heated debates to outright arguments, I could tell that the gap was widening with every subsequent one, and his beliefs seemed to solidify.
We reconciled in 2023 after his wife reached out to me expressing regret that we would lose the friendship over “politics,” tried to get back to acting normally around one another, yet the same issues popped up again. This time, with even less empathy. The most recent example was when we both learnt that Trump got elected president again. I expressed a sense of empathy and regret for all of the people who would no longer be allowed to get abortions, the risk he posed to HRT beneficiaries, the danger he posed to all minorities, etc. The only thing he could come up with is “I feel nothing, they deserve it. Did it to themselves.” I called him out on his utter lack of empathy, we had a brief, but poignant argument, and now we’ve barely been talking for two weeks. He periodically drops a message like nothing happened, but I am beyond hesitant to reply. Everything is cold and superficial.
Now, I tried to understand him and his situation… He’s a relatively fresh father (his daughter is 2 years old), he is aware of the fact that the world isn’t doing too well, but seems to be in denial about it which I sort of understand as being a method of self-protection, but I just cannot abide by his views anymore. No amount of panic or self-defence justifies this in my opinion.
I just don’t know what to do. I mean, I do know, or at least my subconscious does, but… I don’t know, guess the age and depth of our friendship makes me hesitant to drop it, although this is just the sunk cost fallacy at play… The fact that I feel I’m past my socialite days and knowing that I probably won’t make any more friends any time soon doesn’t much help, either.
Guess I’m just looking for confirmation around what I already know is the only option…
In your example, after you rectified your relationship, you said you talked about the election. If you hadn’t brought up the election, do you think they would have?
If you think they could maintain a politics-free discussion with you, it seems like you could still be friends with them. But you can’t bring up politics either.
For example, I have many people I work with, who I don’t agree with all of their ideologies, and that’s okay. We can still be friendly, heck we can still be friends. We just don’t talk about politics. At all. And it’s great
If, on the other hand, they’re going to keep talking about politics leading to arguments. Then yeah it’s time to quit the friendship.
Honest question, since I’m having this trouble with my dad.
How do you genuinely have a light hearted chat with someone who thinks your friends should be deported or have their rights taken away, and who would expect his own grand daughters to carry a rapist’s baby to term?
I can’t seem to divorce the two.
The same way you chat with someone with advanced dementia. You avoid topics that might distress them, accept that their capabilities are limited and that you might have your feelings hurt. Try not to hold it against them. If you love them enough to do this with the knowledge that they will not change (except to get worse), take comfort in the fact that you are probably slowing their decline. Cherish the moments where you’re still able to connect. Endure for their sake, basically.
Not saying you should continue the relationship, but if you choose to this is one way to think about it.
Just like you would work with someone who you don’t agree with. Focus on a shared activity that isn’t politics.
People are more then their political agendas.
No, this person is denying other people’s right to exist.
I think cutting them out completely is the right move.
Not that many people in the world who you can depend on, who will show up at 3am if you need them no matter what… i caution against throwing away those very strong bonds over politics.
It’s human rights not politics.
Eventually, yes. I can tell he’s “tuned into” the state of things, ironically, even though he’d rather close his eyes to it (not judging or blaming him, not that hard to understand why), and politics, whether he realises it or not, come into play pretty frequently.
Thing is, this isn’t just about politics, this is a clear divergence of core values. It also reflects throughout his general behaviour, though in lesser quantities, so to speak. Like the instant it started becoming obvious that the world isn’t ok, he balled up and… I dunno, started coping through these opinions, I guess…
It should be possible to maintain a friendship, especially one based around shared activities - with someone who has different core values.
That’s the thing, I’ve been trying to do just that for basically the last year and a bit. Even decided to pull the trigger on moving to the same city as them (I attended Uni here, but then moved to a different region), thinking that maybe if we met up face-to-face more than we used to it’d help alleviate things a bit. But this was just the latest disagreement to happen between us.
And don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect any sort of relationship to happen smoothly and effortlessly, we’re human and pretty much irrational at the worst of times (myself included). And with things going the way they’re going in general, I can tell I’ve not been at my best for a good while, either. I don’t know if I can deal with any future occurrences, as I can feel that I’m not getting any more cheerful or optimistic as time passes.
I’ll give it some more time, was planning on doing so anyway, and I’ll consider things from your perspective as well. I have too much respect for him to rush this…
You moved cities to be closer to your best, and pretty much only, friend. That’s intense. I think there is a more urgent need to increase the total number of friends you have.
For your special circumstance, I think its BETTER to have a friend you have serious political issues with, then having NO friends at all. Humans are social creatures.
Whatever you have to do to expand your friend pool, I would encourage you to do so.
Ah, sorry, must’ve expressed it wrong.
No, that was a decision I’d been mulling over for several years and several reasons. Our friendship was one of the big reasons, yes, but I mainly needed to get out of my old context, needed a change.
As far as expanding my friend pool, it’s… in the works. But I really can’t deal with extreme differences in views, not in the here and now. My mental health’s been heavily dented for several years now (fixed some problems, then the world exploded), I genuinely can’t deal with casually interacting with people with whom I fundamentally disagree…
I’d rather be alone than surrounded by people I know I can’t trust.
It’s only political in so far as one side of the political spectrum is intent on actively creating new misery and extending suffering and the other side (which is the center) wants to maintain the status quo, which is a passive slow bleed suffering smothered in anxiety but you’re dumbed from the blood loss.
It’s about choosing to grow negativity. That’s the divide, not politics. The fact that it represents itself in politics is just another layer of disappointment, but it’s not the main issue here.
In the US the voting blocks are about 50/50; If it’s impossible to be friends with people from the other voting block, it will be hard to persuade them to the other voting block.