I currently have a 10-year old off-the-shelf NAS (Synology) that needs replacing soon. I haven’t done much with it other than the simple things I mention later, so I still consider myself a novice when it comes to NAS, servers, and networking in general, but I’ve been reading a bit lately (which lead my to this sub). For a replacement I’m wondering whether to get another Synology, use an open source NAS/server OS, or just use a Windows PC. Windows is by far the OS I’m most comfortable with so I’m drawn to the final option. However, I regularly see articles and forum posts which frown upon the use Windows for NAS/server purposes even for simple home-use needs, although I can’t remember reading a good explanation of why. I’d be grateful for some explanations as to why Windows (desktop version) is a poor choice as an OS for a simple home NAS/server.
Some observations from me (please critique if any issues in my thinking):
- I initially assumed it was because Windows likely causes a high idle power consumption as its a large OS. But I recently measured the idle power consumption of a celeron-based mini PC running Windows and found it to be only 5W, which is lower than my Synology NAS when idle. It seems to me that any further power consumption savings that might be achieved by a smaller OS, or a more modern Synology, would be pretty negligible in terms of running costs.
- I can see a significant downside of Windows for DIY builds is the cost of Windows license. I wonder is this accounts for most of the critique of Windows? If I went the Windows route I wouldn’t do a DIY build. I would start with a PC which had a Windows OEM licence.
- My needs are very simple (although I think probably represent a majority of home user needs). I need device which is accessible 24/7 on my home network and 1) can provide SMB files shares, 2) act as a target for backing up other devices on home network, 3) run cloud backup software (to back itself up to an off-site backup location) and, 4) run a media server (such as Plex), 5) provide 1-drive redundancy via RAID or a RAID-like solution (such as Windows Storage Spaces). It seems to me Windows is fine for this and people who frown upon Windows for NAS/server usage probably have more advanced needs.
For me, #1 is license costs. I’ve taken home some servers which would require me to buy 4+ windows server licenses because 16 physical cores is a number for entry-level servers at this point. For the cost of those licenses, I could almost buy a new server with a similar amount of cores every single year.
Second, the brand new filesystem, ReFS, (which needs licenses), has just about caught up to what ZFS had in 2005. The biggest omission is that 2005 ZFS could be your root filesystem. This is less important on *nix systems where your root can be tiny, but windows insists on storing tons of stuff on C, which still needs to be NTFS. ZFS also has 22 years of production testing and still has lots of development.
Third, I want to use containers, and windows uses a Linux VM to do that, so why not skip the middle man?
Never been a better time to try Linux. Ubuntu is pretty easy to get started with (download and setup a bootable USB, stick it and go) and ChatGPT is extremely good about walking you through any questions. You don’t even need to ask highly technical questions, just tell it your goal and your system.
“I just installed Ubuntu 22.04 on my computer and want to SSH into it from a Windows computer on my network, how do I do that?”
“I want to download a file from my Ubuntu command line, how do I do that?”
“I want to setup a share that both Windows and Linux computers can access over my network, how do I do that?”
“I have a github action runner provided by github that includes a run.sh file that needs to run constantly. I want to setup as a background service on my Ubuntu Linux computer so it will always be running as long as the computer is on, how can I do that?”
It will spit out every command line you need in what order, contents of a .service file, tell you how to monitor it, and so on. You can ask it what each line does, what the parameters mean, etc. It’s like having a mid-level sys admin at your fingertips. It will interpret any errors you get, and tell you how to fix them.
Perfect? Maybe not, but its close for a remarkable variety of tasks. It may be, and I’m not joking, 20 times more productive and time efficient than Google searches, reading stackoverflow posts, reading documentations/man pages and trying to decipher what you really need out of any of those sources.
I’m sure some are too paranoid to ask ChatGPT certain things for privacy reasons, and I would anonymize anything you paste in, probably just be a bit mindful of anything involving permissions (you can also ask what security risks exist doing something). Just normal ChatGP3.5 (free) is extremely knowledgeable about Linux CLI and administration along with common packages and apps you’d want to use.
For server:
docker is linux in a jailed namespace (network, filesystem, process tree, etc jail)
Docker hosted on linux is efficient.
Docket hosted on anything else less so.My typical post to these questions is that I run the following without issue:
Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
Drivepool + Scanner + Snapraid is what controls my storage, which is currently something like 26x 20tb drives.
Windows uses the NTFS File system and TrueNAS uses the OpenZFS file system which is superior to NTFS for storing your data. I’d do some reading on the OpenZFS file system to check out the benefits over NTFS. Running TrueNAS is really easy, you can check it out on Youtube, (installation and configuration videos). The book FreeBSD Mastery:ZFS (Michael W Lucas, Allan Jude) is also a good read on everything ZFS.
Thanks. A few others have mentioned file system benefits of going non-Windows, although I’m not exactly clear what they are and some people mentioned something other than zfs (will need to re-read the replies to remember what). Will look into it though.
Copy on Write or COW comes to mind right away.
The COW mode of operation brings some significant advantages. Since old data is not overwritten, recovery from crashes and power failures should be more straightforward; if a transaction has not completed, the previous state of the data (and metadata) will be where it always was. So, among other things, a COW filesystem does not need to implement a separate journal to provide crash resistance.
Just found this, looks like some good info…https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/05/zfs-101-understanding-zfs-storage-and-performance/3/
Lots of great responses here, I won’t reiterate what everyone has already explained. The big benefits imo are redundancy using better file systems like ZFS (Truenas) or BTRFS (Synology, unraid), and in general better management of the drives, and data stored on them. These appliances support more robust raid configs as well, so you have a lot less risk losing data. The other big one is simplicity for what you need it to do. Creating an SMB share on a PC using windows isn’t hard, but it’s not nearly as simple as the 3 clicks it takes on the purpose built OS. These OSs also usually have built in solutions for hosting any other apps you may also want to play with. That’s just my two cents.
I sit in r/datahoarder a lot and the general consensus is that BTRFS is unstable and should not be used, and instead people should use EXT4 or ideally ZFS. I know ZFS is the gold standard and expected to be more resource intensive and RAM hungry. Can you shed some light on why you’d use BTRFS?
I am by no means an expert, mostly a home tinkerer with a Plex server. I use BTRFS because my Synology supports it and I use ZFS on my Truenas box. I also use SHR with my Synology so BTRFS makes adding and upgrading drives really flexible as my media library grows. BTRFS and ZFS are very feature rich, as you mentioned ZFS is very RAM hungry which can be a limitation for people just looking to get into the server space on a budget. I think the instability of BTRFS comes from the way it stores data, it can get very fragmented. EXT4 in comparison is pretty boring but it works well and if you’re just writing data to store it you might not need the features and overhead of the other file systems. Personally I have no real preference, I like my Synology and I like my Truenas machine and as a hobbyist they both serve me well, and I would take either over NTFS for a storage appliance.
Sever oriented Linux distros are designed with server workflows and high availability in mind. Desktop Windows isn’t. However, if you’re not running mission critical services, who cares? Do whatever is the most practical to you.
RAM management is terrible and I just ran Windows Updates on my gaming PC last night and it went into a boot loop. Been a while since I’ve heard about a NIX platform running into boot loops on system updates.
Given that you’re “most comfortable” with windows is probably the number one reason why you should go with something other than Windows. I think you should always get out of your comfort zone and expand your knowledge. Sure you can keep using windows but why but branch out! Hell if you really want to take a leap of faith load up TrueNAS core 🤣
This has been a great discussion here… let me add a few things from my perspective of 30-odd years in the IT space;
- I like to use stuff that’s fit for purpose. Windows 10, Windows 11 and such are desktop operating systems that are fit for their purpose and are very good at it. But they’re less optimal for server-type workloads. Microsoft themselves provide a different operating system for that purpose but it has a different cost model that is a lot higher.
- Access to the GUI is necessary to run Windows. NAS devices and such have the ability to run “headless”; that is no keyboard, monitor or mouse. NAS devices also have a “network first” mentality where everything must be accessible on the network even in the event of a system failure. Recovery cannot require a monitor if you can’t plug one in! Windows (even server) requires physical access.
- Server-focused platforms like NAS provide a lot of capabilities that Windows does not because of the nature of their platforms. For example Synology allows growing your storage easily while Windows requires a lot more technical knowledge to accomplish that.
- Going back to fit-for-purpose; NAS devices provide security that isn’t necessarily there with Windows. Windows has a lot of “moving parts”… in addition to the operating system there are a bunch of ancillary libraries, tools and software that may or may not be used when using Windows as a server. All of these additional tools and libraries provide another potential vector for security breaches especially if not individually maintained thus increasing the maintenance requirements of the system. NAS devices give you the basics of what they need to operate and no more… well that’s until you start adding service packages to a Synology. But even then they will all be managed through the stock package manager and thus updated and maintained, and will still only be as much as you need to get the job done.
As far as my most recent experience with desktop Windows that I find irritating, there are a couple of reasons I still wouldn’t use it as a server platform ;
- Microsoft has a tendency to randomly update your settings, overriding your own settings with what they think are better. A good example that hit me recently is that some recent update overrode my power management settings on a PC I have set up as a headless desktop I then connect to using NX. I had it set to never sleep… suddenly it started sleeping. I had to reset it in order to get back to where I wanted it. This is not the first time this has happened, and I’ve had other issues along these lines. 24x7 isn’t possible when your PC goes to sleep…
- Windows lacks a really solid local filesystem. NTFS is OK and is pretty performant but it lacks a lot of the more advanced features of filesystems from NAS vendors or *NIX systems; ZFS and others have checksumming and scrubbing, most NAS vendors allow scheduled data integrity checks and the like… things like that.
- Software RAID in Windows is acceptable, but is not great. It’s hard to understand when things aren’t working properly and thus plan to replace failed hardware.
Hope that helps :)
Because it’s a waste of a perfectly good gaming PC.
Plus, you’d have to reboot every 3 days for updates.
tldr: the OS is shit, it’s super expensive, keeping it actually secure is hell, it’s nowhere near as good as ZFS-based solutions
The biggest limitation is connection limits. While 2-3 users won’t matter, once you get past 10 connections you will start to get into issues.
There are a lot of good responses here that I won’t reiterate. I will say that, in my own personal and professional experience, Linux simply is a far better server OS than any Windows OS.
That said, use what works for you. If you are experienced and comfortable with Windows, and aren’t too keen on climbing the Linux learning curve, then by all means use Windows.
My only suggestion would be to use Windows Pro (for RDP), or find a Server Standard license for sale at less than retail.
I am to give a perspective that may go along with the OP.
I spent this last summer building up a Proxmox server and putting Plex on it, and a few VMs for things I thought I would need. I also just noticed my Synology DS1515+ is not getting new version of DSM, so it’s probably getting close to needing to be retired.
six months later, this is my new plan.
- Retire the Synology DS1515+
- Replace my main windows box that is 9 years old with something current.
- Take a couple of drives out of the Synology and move them into the Windows Box, and do a simple dynamic mirror
- Put Plex server on Windows
- let run 24x7
There are two people in my house, no reason not to let it run 24x7 hosting everything I need. There is a fear of power usage, but, I will monitor that to see if I need to spin up a low power server.
But, I really do not need to separate it out across multiple versions of linus.