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You SHOULD connect to Tor via a VPN, actually | 2023 Tor Overview
yewtu.beIn which I respond to @MentalOutlaw's "Stop Using Tor With VPNs" video that somebody shared with me, and also talk more about Tor security I guess...
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This video is based on research from https://www.privacyguides.org/en/advanced/tor-overview/ and https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/clarify-tors-weaknesses-with-respect-to-observability/3676
Timestamps:
0:00 Hot take alert
0:08 Mental Outlaw video
0:50 About myself
2:01 Misconceptions about VPNs and Tor
3:48 Why you want to hide Tor from your ISP
4:41 Sidenote about “criminals”
6:08 Censorship circumvention
6:53 Tor bridge safety & historical analysis
7:50 Tor bridge safety examples
9:15 Tor bridge safety conclusion
10:17 Censorship circumvention conclusion
10:43 Tor usage by “criminals” + opsec note
11:06 Global Passive Adversaries
12:38 Investigations into your Tor usage
14:49 Advanced “Traffic Analysis” techniques
16:01 VPNs which log
17:21 What actually makes you stand out on a network
18:41 My real advice on how to connect to Tor
19:36 Common Misconception #1 “VPN = 4 hops!!!”
20:11 Common Misconception #2 “Permanent Entry Node”
20:49 Common Misconception #3 “VPN must be disabled”
21:39 How to use a VPN with Tor properly
22:58 Additional notes on Tor safety
24:25 Where you can learn more
24:33 Remember to subscribe :)
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#tor #vpn #torproject #jonaharagon
While doing this is generally not recommended, EFF does indeed suggest this option in some context: https://ssd.eff.org/module/choosing-vpn-thats-right-you#things-to-consider-what-vpns-don-t-do
I think there’s a huge difference between we cannot make a recommendation and you shouldn’t do this.
The tor FAQ says we cannot endorse this in all scenarios… “generally speaking”
https://support.torproject.org/faq/faq-5/
The video makes a reasonable argument that if you can’t trust your ISP not to log, adding a VPN that has less incentive to log you makes sense and in worst case is the same as your ISP logging you so you lose nothing by trying it
Also, one should consider using Bridges (obfs4), so that your local ISP may not know you’re on Tor. Tails suggests that too. Using a VPS is not necessary a best option for that, though it might be a good option under some situation.
The video covers that as well, if your bridge becomes discovered later, log traffic can be used to identify your tour usage in the past. And if that’s not acceptable in your threat model, then a VPN still makes sense
Agreed. It’s an option worth considering (even EFF said so)—in fact a bridge itself could be run by something like Team Cymru (Augury), removed in TB v11.5.4. On the other hand, a VPN could collaborate with “them” so you’ll have to trust them… adding yet another unknown.
There are many ways to de-anonymoze Tor users indeed. Like Keystroke fingerprinting or Deep Packet Inspection… Usually a local ISP is not a big problem but it depends. The fact remains that even in a country with heavy Internet censorship, currently a nation-state can’t block Tor (via Bridge or Snowflake).
The issue of people in oppressive countries, where internet traffic is logged, is that using Tor won’t be blocked, but will mark somebody as a person of interest.
So there’s a lot of people on this planet who are connected to the internet and have a legal requirement to have their traffic logged. Those people absolutely should be using a VPN, the VPN cannot possibly be worse than their ISP
I believe this is why privacy groups mostly recommend using tor without vpns More users, more traffic, less being a single target in a field