cross-posted from: https://infosec.pub/post/916523
Sen. Bernie Sanders is once again calling for a higher federal minimum wage. The current rate has been $7.25 since 2009.
Minimum wage should be RELATIVE not absolute. When we started the fight for 15 that was OK but pretty sure after the inflation we had it’s not enough. Let’s make minimum wage relative to provide the minimum necessities to live in any city in the country. Or make it a percentage of the highest paid CEO salary. It’s gotta be relative, not a dollar amount but an amount of living you can afford.
Min wage should probably tie to inflation, and we’ve been doing fight for 15 for so long it probably should be fight for 25 now.
I completely agree with you in theory. Minimum wage should be the minimum amount someone needs to live a non-desperate life. Or some smarter way to say that. My only fear is that Goodhart’s Law would come into effect “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” I’m worried that the dickbags would find ways to skew the calculation, to pay people less. Maybe that’s still a better alternative than fighting to raise it to a defined amount over and over and over again, though. I just wanted to mention how I was worried. Because of the dickbags.
That’s a good point. I’m sure they’d do something like that. That’s why we tie it to a ton of measures: cost of a gallon of milk+minimum rent+average healthcare costs for a family+S&P 500+cost of phone and internet+etc. A huge, comprehensive reflection of the cost of living AND include the oligarchs favorite market metrics. If we have to bail out Silicon Valley venture capital, they should pay higher minimum wage when they are reaping large returns.
Question - do we also reduce wages if there’s deflation?
Just make it so it never goes down. It is a minimum, no reason to lower the floor for the lowest earners
I agree with you, that sounds like a way to make it harder for them to screw with the measurement. I’d vote for it!
(My new worry is that they’d see it being an issue well before it was implemented, and pay Fox News to call it part of the trans, communist agenda or whatever, so it would never pass. Fuck. Maybe that’s enough bubble bath white wine for now…)
In some European countries it is tied to the cost of living. All wages, not just minimum wages, are indexed to match the inflation.
I think ours is supposed to be, i’m Dutch and we get a yearly raise somewhat based on inflation. I say somewhat because it never fully covers the price increases across the board.
As of the past couple years there has been a housing shortage and i’ve watched rent go from €550 for 120m2 all the way up to €800 for 66m2.
For me personally i’m actually making less (amount per month) compared to rent being €550. While putting in more time and effort into my job, my current job i have the extra task of solving system issues(forgive me for not knowing the English name of this) when it encounters some trouble with faulty pallets up to 21m in height. I’m am “on call” for this too and have to work late shifts. All that for an even lower wage and higher rent.
We used to eat like royalty for €200 a month, we went to the gym daily as our diet allowed to eat enough to actually benefit from working out. Now we pay €400 a month and it’s barely enough to have the energy to do my job and go to work on my bicycle (seeing i can maintain it myself, it is the cheapest form of transportation) every day.
But i got fired as a result of a reorganisation, so i’m finishing my last 4 weeks right now and hope i land on a better job with more oppertunities. I’m doubtful as i don’t have any real education to my name and it isn’t within my budget and energy to do it now.
Thing is a US wide minimum wage (which is what this news is about) would be like an EU wide minimum wage. There’s crazy variation in living costs across the states.
Somewhere like California is pretty close to this amount already, the employers would just pay out an extra couple of dollars and everyone goes on as normal.
Where the effect in somewhere like the rural rectangle states would be enormous, with inflation skyrocketing, people probably losing jobs over it at smaller firms. People’s savings would lose value overnight. People who thought they had enough money to retire will find themselves forced back to work. If you’re a young person a $17 min wage sounds pretty great, but that’s not the only thing to consider.
They need to tag it to a COLA element or something. They set it to a minimum that sounds ok when they increase it but then it sits there for 14 years and is completely laughable like it is right now…
Don’t most bigger cities have their own minimum wage requirements?
Every state in the US has its own minimum wage on top of the federal.
Edit - I meant “can.” There is nothing stopping a state from increasing its own minimum wage over the federal level. I apologize for any confusion.
Kansas minimum wage is the same as the national minimum wage, so I wouldn’t consider that “it’s own minimum wage.”
Pretty sure it isn’t the only one.
Note: this includes the national $2 and something before tips minimum.
I don’t think that’s true if you look here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_wage
AL, LA, MS, SC, and TN don’t have their own minimum wages if I’m reading it correctly.
Yes, and also:
- Mandatory salary transparency
- All hires gain shares of the company while employed there
Good. It should be raised. By a lot.
A full time fast food worker in Australia over the age of 21 makes $24.60 aud ($16.37 usd) an hr. This wage being full time includes holidays, sick leave, paid taxes, and we have universal healthcare. A closer comparison would be the casual rate, which does not include holidays or sick leave, and you have to pay your own taxes. (You still get universal healthcare though) That rate is $30.91 aud (20.58 usd) an hour.
Prices of common things compared to a similarly sized city in the States:
3l of full cream store brand milk is $4.50 aud ($3.00 usd) 1gal of whole store brand milk is $3.09 usd
Loaf of store brand wholemeal bread is $2.70 aud ($1.80 usd) Loaf of store brand honey wheat bread is $1.74 usd
12 cheapest free range eggs $5.20 aud ($3.46 usd) 12 cheapest pasture raised eggs $5.92 usd
1 gallon is 3.7 litres.
1 gallon of the cheapest gasoline in the American city we are looking at is $4.21 usd 1 litre of petrol is $1.88 aud 1.88 x 3.7 = 6.95 1 gallon of petrol is $6.95 aud ($4.63 usd)
1 br 1 ba unit in the middle of the cbd is $500 aud a week. ($332 usd or $1328 a month) 1 br 1 ba apartment in the middle of the cbd is $1550 usd a month
Basic utilities (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment $321.75 usd Basic utilities (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment $330.40 aud ($219.93 usd)
Store brand pre-paid mobile plan 35GB data, unlimited texts and calls $30 aud a month ($19.97 usd) Store brand pre-paid mobile plan 40GB data, unlimited texts and calls $39.88 usd a month
Also factor in the cost of health insurance in the States, which you do not need here.
I moved to Australia from the States around 8 years ago, and the difference in quality of life compared to the relatively similar cost of living was… a huge adjustment.
We talked about moving to the States someday, but now wouldn’t consider it.
Negotiations for the minimum wage should have a floor of $30.
Any less is malicious neglect of the working class.
If your company can’t afford it then your business model sucks, and you can blame dog-eat-dog capitalism.
That is $34k a year for full time. The minimum wage was around $15 (too lazy to do the exact math right now) in todays dollars in 1968. I doubt that would cause major issues in the overall economy and would help many.
If you are writing now wage laws, please have them double on national holidays.
In an economy that is based on charging each other, the more people that has money the more opportunity for all.
In 1955 the average annual wage was 4,400 a year, equivalent to $50,000 today.
So this $17 an hour doesn’t seem too far off.
Also, I totally agree that we need more holidays and vacation time. Minimum 3 weeks of vacation a year, on top of holidays, along with allowing a minimum of 9 months for maternity leave and 3 to 6 months for paternity leave.
Now we’re at it, I would like universal healthcare and world peace too please. 😉
Good news! There’s one simple solution to all that - you just have to get governments to do their job and have them make sure the corporations exist because they benefit the people, instead of the way we’re doing it now
Just 1 easy step!
Totally agree. I ran the numbers for how much it would cost a single person to live in my state, and I came up with a minimum income threshold of about $40,000.
That includes rent, no car payments, utilities, healthcare costs and entertainment costs. So that doesn’t even include car payments!
If you make less than $40,000 a year, you will not be able to afford to live in my state - I live in a moderate to high cost state.
$40,000 a year translates into $19/hour.
Not democrats, the progressives that should be in their own party. Democrats are gonna let it fizzle out like they always do.
Third candidates don’t even work, so that will only backfire unless First Past the Post voting is replaced.
I aint chasing the carrot on a stick any longer. I’ve got no healthcare, minimum wage from the early 2000’s, working my ass off against spiked inflation in record heatwaves. They are not the party that’s going to help me with any of these things.
It’s not a carrot, it’s a political razor wire. You cannot charge through it, and doing so is a strategically bad move that only makes things worse (also like that trope where multiple people die in a row doing the same thing they are warned not to do). And thus far it seems like progressives in the house/senate pushes the party left (or at least slows rightward movement) more than failed 3rd-party runs ever will. Particularly because of the legislative process and actual chances of votes passing.
Also unless I’m missing something, “candidate is too progressive to win against the greater evil, so we must choose corporate” is the biggest part of the Democrats that ratchets us down here. If everybody ignored that and voted for progressive candidates, the party would have a chance at being progressive (at least until establishing some form of ranked voting prevents spoiled votes).
So it’s that, grassroot movements, and/or something else. Using your half (if even that) of an ineffective system to change itself is not going to work quickly or reliably. The reason many things are so bad is shady groups on the right made long-term plans to reverse old losses, and then used their money/positions/influence to inch towards them over decades.
Im not here complaining that progress is too slow, it’s legitimately moving the opposite way. Im not going that way anymore. Im not gonna support grandpa telling unions they cant collectively bargain anymore. Im not gonna support his oil drilling bill, Im not gonna support him ignoring minimum wage, Im not gonna support him abandoning the uninsured poor. I dont support what democrats stand for now.
Ok, but the Republicans want to make it even worse for you so would you rather try and push the Dems to be better or throw away votes to a third party with no power?
If you keep voting for the lesser of two evils you end up with the most evil imaginable.
At this point I believe I have better odds of things being better voting third party.
What I think a lot of people who are against this are forgetting, is that this type of thing can be great in the long run. I’m sure a $10 jump would hurt some businesses, but it should also be on those businesses to manage their finances to handle it.
You’re in a union or job where you make a dollar over the new minimum despite having lots of schooling to get there? Hey, now you have a great reason/excuse to rally together and demand an equivalent raise of your own.
Minimum wage increasing would also mean that more money would go back into the system through taxes and spending, instead of having it just sit in a few people’s bank accounts.
Some Democrats do.
Just enough always don’t.
What a bunch of radicals! How dare they give workers fair compensation? What next? Afforable healthcare so people don’t die of curable diseases? Didn’t they learn to pull themselves up by the bootstraps… or something…? It aint my fault they didn’t get to um… inherit billions of dollars.
/s
That’s good of him, but I wonder if that can even pass, given that Republicans hold the house, and Manchin and Sinema exist. In the end, I’d settle for $10 to $11 an hour, the removal of loopholes like $2.13 minimum an hour for tipped wages, and similar fixes.
It’s a good starting point at least, and Manchin said he was okay with an $11 minimum wage. I just hope it’s not just fronting, and something actually comes of this.
There’s no point to passing that. I’d rather not pretend.
It would be better than nothing. There are a lot of red states that are very low cost of living that could benefit from even a small minimum wage increase.
Unfortunately, that would take pressure off of a more progressive set of labor policies.
$17 is a joke
$17 is $10 better than $7!
at this point, you need to combine a more modest increase in minimum wage with a ubi or universal tax credit that all tax filing residents get. raise the minimum wage too much, too fast, and a lot of businesses would simply close or go under, but a more modest increase plus eliminate the burden of providing and funding health care insurance plans for employees, and that wouldn’t happen.
something like a $12 an hour minimum wage (about $24k annually at full time) PLUS $24k annual ubi tax credit would be equivalent of about $24 an hour ($48k annually). combine that with single-payer, tax-funded health care for all residents. automatically enrolled by the irs when you file your taxes each year.
all funded by increased marginal rates on higher incomes. the higher the income is, the higher the marginal rate becomes, up to the rates that existed before the trickle-down fraud era began.
states would be allowed to raise their own minimum wage higher, but they would also need to fund an equivalent increase in the ubi to their state residents as well.
A modest increase means never catching up with an actual liveable wage. If businesses can’t survive paying a living wage then they deserve to go out of business.
With a UBI businesses should just pay whatever they want. At that point people would be able to hold out for decent pay instead of taking terrible wages just to survive.
Never going to pass under the current climate. I’m hoping for a blue wave in 2024, but preparing for the worst.
I wouldn’t write off anything Biden says at this point, he has gotten a lot of legislation passed by working with the Republicans the last couple years that nobody thought would have been possible.
Something I don’t understand is why is a specific number tied to the minimum wage. Is there not a legitimate mathematical way to calculate “minimum wage” depending on where you live and your local economy?
It’s not hard, governments index shit all the time. In Australia my university debt is indexed to the inflation rate.
Okay, but why not set the minimum wage to a thriving wage - and then index it with inflation year on year.
In Europe it is almost always tied to the inflation number and automatically updated every year.
It varies wildly between countries in Europe. There are initiatives to have some sort of common baseline though.
Do it! In fact make it $20 an hour! ✊
Agreed but this is a good idea in general so it has zero chance of actually happening.
I’m all for it but look forward to another 30% real cost of living on necessities the following year.
As long as I get a 9.75$ bump in my salary I’m ok w/ this. Otherwise all us that make more than that take a hit because it will cause inflation.
In Netherlands workers already make $20 something an hour and their prices aren’t any different than us. The big boss just doesn’t get as big of a bonus. People working 40 hour weeks should be able to put a roof over their head and live a decent life. They do it in Europe, so we are going to do it here.
“Fuck you, I got mine”
Actually, I think the whole point of the minimum wage increase proposal is to reduce income disparity, not perpetuate it.
If all you did was increase everybody’s income by $10 an hour, then you will still decrease income disparity, but not as much as if you simply raised the bottom end.
A lot of people at the upper end are going to receive income boosts that are not in line with your goals.
As someone who is middle income earner myself, we have instituted a $14 an hour minimum wage has increased costs of things like food and groceries. However, at the same time the people who are doing those jobs still have a right to live comfortable lives.
In addition, stores and restaurants were having a very difficult time finding anyone to fill empty positions at the lower wage levels since they paid very poorly prior to the minimum wage increase. Things are a little better now.
The idea that a minimum wage increase causes inflation is a Fox news fantasy, not real life.
“Historical data supports the stance that a minimum wage has had a minimal impact on how companies price their goods and does not materially cause inflation.”
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052815/does-raising-minimum-wage-increase-inflation.asp
