Canada should be investing in healthcare and science, taking advantage of the current opportunity to poach world-class talent from the USA. And don’t vote Conservative because they’ll do the opposite.
I can’t agree with your comment more. It’s time for Canada to take a stand and invite in all the smartest people from the US to help us bolster our economy and better the country.
Problem with that is we gotta offer a higher salary, which we can’t afford right now. Now with how medicare is being sabotaged by conservative provincial governments.
Not living under fascism and the threat of going to prison for doing your job is worth a pay cut for some. That said, we shouldn’t underpay medical professionals.
They’re already very well paid. A bit too much in my opinion. Sure they have a lot of responsibilities and there’s a lot of risks. But so do engineers, and they’re not even close to what medical professionals do. (Correct me if I’m wrong though)
Edit:
Here’s a link with data about medical professional salaries in Canada:
https://invested.mdm.ca/how-much-do-doctors-make-in-canada/
And here is one with the data for France:
https://www.medelse.com/actualites/la-remuneration-des-medecins-par-specialite-le-guide/
Or (from 2018)
For many of them, just coming to Canada is worth making a few bucks less.
Problem with that is we gotta offer a higher salary, which we can’t afford right now. Now with how medicare is being sabotaged by conservative provincial governments.
Every province can afford it tho (prior to this tariff fiasco anyway). 2 years ago Trudeau gave each province extra billions to fund healthcare … but he wanted the premiers to sign a contract stating they would spend the money on healthcare.
Every one of the premiers told him to fuck off. So if a province is doing pretty shitty in healthcare right now (looking at you NB) it’s because the premier decided to spend that money on other stuff.
I mean, mental health is worth something. I’d be willing to take a pay cut.
If they stay in the US for the money, they deserve to stay there and see what happens.
Same situation, here in Europe - the most beneficial situation would be to have a bigger partnership between the EU and Canada! Only then, we could face Trump, Putin, and other dictators.
Is tech support in demand? 😅
If we get all the smart people, most everything will be in demand.
Must be nice to be so privileged.
Do dumb people deserve fascists?Well, the dumb people voted for the fascists, so kinda?
There are plenty of dumb people who don’t support fascists and plenty of smart people who do. Intelligence is completely unrelated to morality.
What the fuck?
Where’s your reading comprehension?
My mistake, i thought this topic was about how emigrsting to Canada is realistically only possible for people who have skills in high demand and are referred to here as “smart”.
Sorry for offending you, oh wise one. I’m just a mere moron, please forgive me.
Even with your apology you sound like a dick.
Trudeau did a great job of doing this the first time around. We got some big names in Chemistry back across the border. Thanks Trump lol
Call it ‘Projet Trombone’ .
Get the government in the business of building homes. Stop relying on the private sector, this shit needs to be done ASAP. Then reach our to American talent!
Should’ve done it 8 years back when the orange fuckwad was elected for the first time. Incredible miss by Canada.
We didn’t miss, we got some smart folks during that time.
Nothing changed during Trump’s first presidency disaster and nothing has changed after the pandemic. It won’t happen and this is fucking sad.
Best we csn do is piss away money on mega corpos thst won’t do jackshit.
From what little I know, I believe that wait times for Canadian family physicians suck because they move to the US for better pay. So this is rebalancing the scales
Pharmaceutical tech and bio students are getting offers rescinded to universities because of the US grant cuts.
We have the chance to eat the US’s lunch for the next decade of health tech right now.
He writes under a pseudonym due to fear of further retribution from members of U.S. medical leadership and U.S. government officials.
What a sad state
what a sad country!
[rimshot]
Yay! But also consider coming to the EU; we are also in need of good doctors!
There is already a brain drain of doctors from the south to the north and west of Europe. So so many Greeks for example.
Fair enough, but I am from Portugal, so I do feel the issue.
Ironic commenting this from Lemmy.ca
A fine point, but Lemmy.ca is geared towards Canadians, not exclusive to them.
I’m not a doctor but if trump takes Canada, I’ll be seriously looking into what it takes to move to The Netherlands… That or some nice country/Island where I don’t need to hurt other people.
My country (Portugal) is a quite good place, but please don’t buy or rent any overpriced house, because that makes it too expensive for the poorest citizens (minimum salary is less than 900 euros per month).
I’ve heard nothing but good things about Portugal! Though, I think it’s incredibly disrespectful to go to a country and not know at least SOME of the local language. I’ve never even considered learning Portuguese but I am now, if not just to visit. I will 100% respect the local culture.
I really like it in Canada, but I am quite scared of trump calling himself king, Canada the 51st state, etc. If it comes down to it, any peaceful place is where I want to be.
It is a good place, but it does not necessarily have a lot of good people. We also have quite some ignorants, similar to the 'Murican ones. Another thing is that Portuguese is not very easy to learn or pronounce, especially the more neutral accent (the pseudo-Lisbon one). My suggestion is to pick a place you’d like to visit, and specialize your information, for that area. Anyway, good luck!
I’m a current American bio student planning to go into healthcare, can confirm I’m planning to go to grad school abroad to hopefully escape the US. I’m not planning to go to Canada though, I’m planning to go to Australia. I decided not to look into Canada after hearing of it’s rising far-right and anti-immigrant sentiment. If Canada wants US brain drain Canadians would have to be willing to accept American immigrants, even with how poorly many Canadians view Americans right now
I decided not to look into Canada after hearing of it’s rising far-right and anti-immigrant sentiment.
Is this not happening everywhere?
Sure, but not to the same degree. I don’t know much about Canadian politics but for a time my social media was filled with post after post bashing Trudeau and favoring more far-right politicians just over immigration policy. It was enough to turn me off of your country as a whole, if immigrants are so hated there.
Sounds like propaganda got to you. Maybe don’t make big life decisions if you “don’t know much” about a topic? Educating yourself is free, just hard to do if your source of education is “post after post”.
The funny thing about immigration is that it turns out I don’t need to research every single ‘might be good, might be bad’ country out there. I only needed to find a single country that had lenient immigration laws and would be accepting of me. Australia was that country for me, though it has it’s own issues as all countries do. Personally, I don’t think I should need to have some degree in foreign politics to be able to decide which countries would/wouldn’t be welcoming to me. If anything, if Canada has some massive propaganda problem where all searchable metrics (58% Trudeau disapproval ratings, 58% think too much immigration, 41% anxious immigrant rights get too much attention), then perhaps “too much propaganda” is yet another reason to avoid Canada.
That’s because Trudeau is wildly unpopular. So unpopular he was finally asked to resign (and agreed to do so) by his own party.
And furthermore if you want to understand the reasons behind anti-immigrant sentiment in Canada you should study our housing policies and issues. Canada is in the midst of a housing crisis which I believe is the main contributor to anti-immigrant sentiment.
Now you might say (and would be fair to do so) that immigrants are not to blame for bad housing policy. That is true, however it’s entirely fair for Trudeau to receive his share of the blame for the housing crisis, especially given his many promises to address the issue.
And if you’re wondering about Australia: its housing crisis is as bad or worse than Canada’s. Anti-immigration sentiment and far-right politics is even more prevalent there.
I’m well aware of the Australian housing crisis, and of it’s far-right politicians like Dutton. I was also aware that there were other reasons for Trudeau being unpopular besides immigration (hence why it wasn’t the sole statistic I provided, I used Trudeau’s approval ratings as somewhat of a general metric for Canada turning against left-leaning politicians, and I used the other two statistics to try to show Canada’s anti-immigrant attitudes. Without spending exorbitant amounts of time studying Canadian politics this was the quickest summary statistics I choose to look at).
I criticized Canada for having poor attitudes towards immigration, and I would criticize Australia for the same, these two opinions aren’t mutually exclusive. Ultimately my personal decision to attempt to immigrate to Australia rather than Canada came down to choosing ‘the lesser of two evils’ (which as an American I am very practiced in doing. ha. ha.)
Specifically, I thought Australia’s further distance from the US would make it safer geopolitically, it’s higher foreign-born population would make it so that way ‘anti-immigration’ sentiment didn’t become ‘anti-immigrant’ sentiment, and it’s compulsory voting laws would make it harder for far-right politicians to gain and/or maintain a foothold. I truly did not intend for my personal decision to go to Australia over Canada to be some kind of dig at Canada, though I did get defensive at the dismissive claim that the limited research I have done was just “propaganda getting to me.” Apologies if I was a bit aggressive in my critique of Canadian attitudes towards immigration
See as a Canadian I wouldn’t make it so complicated. The reason I would move to Australia is very simple: the weather.
But then I have a giant hole in my living room ceiling because all the winter storms this year caused a giant glacier of ice to build up on the roof which subsequently melted and leaked through the roof, destroying the ceiling in the process. Furthermore, this apparently happened to tons of other people in my area because the insurance company is currently swamped with claims over this.
Australia doesn’t have to deal with any of this. Australia has cheap and highly accessible solar power. Australia has beautiful weather 8 months of the year in exchange for blistering summers. I think I’d take that trade at this point!
Australia hates immigrants too so have fun with that
It’s a matter of degree. Australia has a housing crisis and many want to lower immigration, but their starting level of immigration was already incredibly high, for instance 30% of the population is foreign born, as compared to Canada’s 21%. A marginal difference, but it still contributes to a culture more accepting of immigrants.
You know, I think somehow the rhetoric has gotten mixed up here though. I have said ‘As a victim currently being forced to flee my fascist home country, I think Canada could stand to be more accepting of immigrants’ and you have heard ‘Canada sucks so hard I won’t go there even though I’m American (and thus an uninformed idiot).’
I think it’s part of an overarching narrative I’ve seen, of people from non-US countries hating on Americans for not voting/volunteering/working hard enough to stop Trump from being elected, that ‘America = Bad’ and ‘[Insert My Country Here] = Good, and we would never be like Bad America.’ It goes without saying that I voted Harris & phone banked often. I don’t think Canada is a bad country, I think it’s amazing, even! But I also find the sheer amount of nationalistic rhetoric I’ve seen both around and directly here in this thread deeply worrying.
Like, you do realize that you’re essentially responding to a trans person, a potential victim of genocide, with ‘Haha, you’re such an idiot! Don’t you realize nowhere is safe for you? Don’t you realize everywhere has rising far-right politics and hatred of immigrants? Have fun immigrating to a country that hates you to escape a dictatorship you tried to stop but ultimately had no control over!’
I’m very aware that Australia also has an upswing in anti-immigrant rhetoric. I find it deeply unempathetic of you to try and use it as some sort of ‘gotcha’ to prove that your country is amazing (or that other countries are just as bad). I’m currently having to flee the country I’ve called home my entire life due to political persecution. I think it would be helpful if people could remember that I’m an actual person and not just another ‘stupid American’
Hey man I apologize for trolling you because you have clearly done your research.
Australia is basically just like Canada though and let me explain.
Everyone in the country lives in basically the same small area and the rest uninhabitable.
Both colonial nations with still a terrible treatment of the natives.
The wildlife kills you.
The climate kills you.
Canada has hillbillies but straya has bogans.
Housing crisis caused by identical problems.
Have you considered living in tassy? That’s where I live without question.
I’m not sure why you’re talking if you already have all the answers buddy.
I don’t think I have all the answers, buddy, I’m just defending myself from the accusation that because I happen to not have a favorable view of your country in regards to immigration (and mysteriously, it gets less and less favorable the more actually interact with Canadians) that means I’ve somehow fallen prey to propaganda
I tried to defend myself by showing the statistics I had seen showing that Canadians aren’t currently partial to immigrants, and you are responding by essentially saying ‘responding with statistics must mean you think you know everything, you know-it-all.’ I am willing to learn and engage with actual evidence, this is just an ad hominem attack
They got their impression of Canada from reddit
Genuinely, where do you think I should get my impression of Canada from? Perhaps this Lemmy instance, where the prevailing response to me going: ‘hey, Canada has a lot of hatred towards immigrants, as a victim of a fascist government forced to flee my home country I decided to search elsewhere’ was ‘um, ACTUALLY, the place you have chosen to go to ALSO hates PEOPLE LIKE YOU, and you (the victim of a fascist government trying to kill you for being a minority) should’ve DONE YOUR RESEARCH(??) because Canada ALSO HAS A MASSIVE PROPAGANDA PROBLEM which is why you should COME TO CANADA INSTEAD’
Frankly, I fear all I have learned from this is that Canadians, unlike the stereotype, are deeply unempathetic people who currently seem to be pushing a narrative of “Canada good, America (and Americans) bad.” Hence the claims I’ve seen on Lemmy that ‘Americans deserve to suffer under fascism’ because ‘we didn’t work/vote/volunteer hard enough to stop it.’
In this case, America = Bad bc American doctors (smart) are leaving. Canada = Good bc American doctors want to go there. So, under this framing, me criticizing Canadian attitudes against immigration somehow becomes me (stupid American) hating on Canada as a whole. Queue the dogpiling about how I’m an ‘uninformed idiot’ and I’ve ‘bought the propaganda’ despite the fact I’ve been researching how to immigrate for the past few months
Forgive me if this came out a bit hostile, I’m a bit frustrated right now, you know, from the whole ‘fleeing my country that wants to genocide me’ thing. As a warning, I’d be wary of dismissing the blatantly nationalistic attitudes of your fellow countrymen as “oh that’s just how Canadians on Reddit behave.” After all, glossing over just how many fascists my country had was what got us Trump.
All our media is controlled by right wing groups (edit: excl. CBC) I wouldn’t take that as a representation of the overall sentiment of the population.
We are looking at an election soon however so hesitation makes sense.
I wasn’t reading news articles so much as I as reading Reddit comments (back when I still used Reddit), which is certainly still not a completely comprehensive read of the whole Canadian population, but it’s about as close as I can get without being in Canada myself. To be honest though, having most of the media controlled by right wing groups is another concern, though I do hope your elections go well
I think it’s important to remember immigration isn’t just some lever you can turn on and off: “oh we’re having issues with quality of life so let’s stop letting immigrants in,” “oh but we want highly educated people like doctors so lets let them in.” Prospective immigrants will remember at best the wishy-washy stance on whether or not immigrants should be let in, at worst the outright xenophobic sentiment they had heard. This especially goes for people in highly educated professions like doctors, who are desirable immigrants in any countries, and thus have options to pick and choose where they want to go.
I know when my parents (who are both doctors) started looking into investing a bit in other countries, Canada wasn’t even considered, they went straight to investing in Europe. When I told them I was looking into foreign colleges, they suggested schools in New Zealand, in Germany, in Sweden… they didn’t once recommend Canada. Well, this is just anecdotal evidence, and I’m sure many many American doctors will flee to Canada. But I wouldn’t assume just because doctors are leaving the US necessarily means they’re going to Canada
/r/Canada was taken over by right wing groups too. The rest of us migrated to /r/onguardforthee (before coming here).
Onguardforthee is trash. Echo chamber.
No more than /r/canada
At least a few years ago. Who knows how they’ve both devolved since.
Australia has the same problems as Canada
And it’s a problem there too. Both Australia and Canada need to cool it with the anti-immigrant scapegoating unless they want to end up like America. Ultimately the main reason I chose Australia over Canada was due to it’s further distance from the US making it less likely to get embridled in geopolitical conflicts with the US, like Canada already is with these tariff wars
My bro, or sis, if you’re not going to Canada because of righties and anti-immigration, I got some bad news for you about Aus…
Yes, I’m very aware that Australia (and the whole of the world for that matter) also has rising far-right and anti-immigration sentiment. I’m not sure why so many people in this thread think I was born yesterday and have done 0 research on the matter of where I hope to spend the rest of my life. Ultimately anywhere is better than the US though, and I can’t allow myself to be so caught up in self-defeatist thoughts like “everywhere has rising far-right politics” or “nowhere is safe” or “immigration is too hard” that I stay paralyzed in the line of danger.
My decision to choose Australia over Canada was ultimately a matter of degree. I felt a country further from the US would be more safe geopolitcally, Australia’s higher foreign-born population would lead to a less xenophobic culture, and compulsory voting laws would keep far-right politicians from gaining or maintaining a foothold, thank you for your concern
Got a bio friend fleeing to NZ rn
A doctor I worked with who was born in Canada but had been working in the US decided to move back to Canada and work with us, I guess he and his family wanted to get out of the states. Well, his family hated it here, I guess just not used to our way of life, and he had lots of criticism of how OHIP does not fund things (thanks Doug the drug dealer) and bitched all the time, and so last summer he went and secretly got a new job, his family moved back to the US ahead of him, and he hung out here for the fall and announced on October 31st that he was quitting and going back to the states. I didn’t see him until the day after the election and I asked him where he was moving to, and he told me, but he said now he didn’t know because of the election. Well, he moved after all, I mean his family was already there, but now that the US pulled 880 billion out of Medicare which is all of Medicare alone and a lot of people lost their jobs and therefore their insurance, and funding is being pulled out of science and medicine in other places, I don’t think he’ll have a good time of it. He was pretty arrogant about how badly he thought we did things, and while I agree that the conservative Ontario government sucks the rigid cock of Satan, it’s not like that!
However OHIP really needs to pay many doctors more. Family doctors deserve a huge raise, and many subspecialties are poorly paid for the amount of education and work they require. For example, MS neurologists and movement disorders neurologists are paid very poorly and those patients require a LOT of work.
Only took 40 years to reverse brain drain
American here. Apparently those doctors aren’t fleeing to my local clinic in Seattle. Routine appointments are scheduled months out. Last August I had a weird little heart thing where paramedics showed up and checked me out. They recommended taking a cardio stress test, which I couldn’t get until October, and discussing the results with the actual doctor was in fucking December. Because we have the Finest Healthcare System In The World™ (sunbeams, angels singing). Of course for really urgent matters you can get very immediate attention via ambulance and the Emergency Room, and then you owe them your house. Cuz Freedom!
Welcome. Shouldn’t be hard to get in if you have credentials.
I’ve got my ticket in, just waiting for bureaucracy at this point :)
So maybe all the Canadian-trained doctors can come back?
Cmon home! We need ya!
Sorry if this is off-topic, but I can’t be the only one who read the title as “pegging canada,” right?
It’s been so ass these last few years to get proper care. Glad to hear it
sorta annoying the universal healthcare fighting AMA is pretty responsible for where we are now.
Under his eye(liner)
