Even if his reasons are probably/definitely far from perfect, unintentionally based.
based is when you sacrifice your life for the Russian oligarchs
Sorry, we have different definitions of based. Ukraine and NATO bad doesn’t imply Russia good. The war in Ukraine is an imperialist war fought between the capitalist elites of one country vs the capitalist elites of its antagonistic block. You’d be a fool not to dodge the draft.
“Imperialism is when you invade a country next to you.”
Imperialism is a higher stage of capitalism in which the means of production of the country have concentrated into the hands of a few, there’s no longer competition in the main private sectors of the economy, and the economy has financialized. Capitalists don’t live off the profits of the companies anymore, they live off stock trading and investment funds. The high rate of development of local industry leads capitalist firms to exporting their capital to other countries to expand the markets and the production and to abuse the cheap resources and labor elsewhere. Please explain me how this situation doesn’t describe Russia or most NATO countries.
Imperialist war is when a war is fought between countries in the stage of imperialism for imperialist reasons.
Are we going to pretend that imperialism only exists in this specific and convenient definition that you make and did not exist before industrialization and the financialization of economies, or that the Russian entry into this war was for “imperialist” reasons or that Russia is exploiting its new territories (which have always had indigenous Russians as the main population base) in the model (of “expanding markets and abusing cheap resources/labor”) you describe, rather than painstakingly taking effort to integrate and develop the regions that Ukraine and the collective west has been shelling for a decade?
There is a clear difference between the imperialist warmongering of the western nations, and this war of defense by Russia, capitalist as it may be- a war to defend their country from being further encircled, threatened, and carved up, and to protect the legitimate human rights of the indigenous Russo-Ukranians. The entire majority of the world can see it, but somehow you- by the looks of your recent comment history, a Spaniard (white west European, whose imperialist heyday it should be noted fell outside of the definitions of imperialism as you describe it) conveniently do not. I’d recommend taking a look at your own biases, because you’re clearly Euro-brained and it’s not a good look.
Are we going to pretend that imperialism only exists in this specific and convenient definition
They literally sent me Lenin, I’m abiding to Lenin’s definition of imperialism on “Imperialism: higher stage of capitalism”.
painstakingly taking effort to integrate and develop the regions that Ukraine and the collective west has been shelling for a decade?
Forgive me for not believing Putin’s intent here is humanitarian development of western-liberalism-affected regions with Russian majority.
There is a clear difference between the imperialist warmongering of the western nations, and this war of defense by Russia
Yeah, NATO is objectively worse, there’s no arguing that
a war to defend their country from being further encircled, threatened, and carved up
All of that is true. The former Warsaw pact has seen color revolution after color revolution (what a coincidence that similar protests like the Occupy Movement in the US or the 15M in Spain don’t produce any results). That doesn’t invalidate anything of what I’m saying, it’s still warmongering between advanced capitalist states for geopolitical control. Forgive me for not praising Steven fucking Seagal for wanting to give his life for the well-being of Russian oligarchic companies.
and to protect the legitimate human rights of the indigenous Russo-Ukranians
Famous defender of human rights capitalist Russia, not at all constantly passing laws against minorities (whether women, queer, or national minorities like central-asians), and on a downwards spiral towards fascism (sadly like the rest of Europe).
Your last paragraph is a tirade calling me basically an eurolib and linking me to the Spanish empire (like, seriously, wtf) for not wanting to defend the modern Russian capitalist regime. Believe it or not, there are people on the left who don’t critically support Russia for being 90% Hitler defending itself from the 99% Hitler that NATO is.
They literally sent me Lenin, I’m abiding to Lenin’s definition of imperialism on “Imperialism: higher stage of capitalism”.
And Russia is in this war to “expand its markets and abuse cheap resources/labor” how? Funnily enough, NATO is the one doing that to Ukraine as we speak, and before their sanctions, this is what Europe and the west at large was doing to Russia.
Forgive me for not believing Putin’s intent here is humanitarian development of western-liberalism-affected regions with Russian majority.
“Forgive me for not believing (insert non-western state/leader resisting western aggression here)'s intent is humanitarian development or any such high ideals, they’re no saint.” That’s not the point, I think the sensible analysis would show Putin (being a lib and still having wished to be a comprador then) didn’t want this war in the first place. All that said, what I described is what they are engaging in, and you can theorize about the intent (which is surely not just “charity”) but the material reality can’t be denied.
Famous defender of human rights capitalist Russia, not at all constantly passing laws against minorities (whether women, queer, or national minorities like central-asians), and on a downwards spiral towards fascism
Yes, Russia has its issues with these things (most places do, though Russia is going in the wrong direction with much of it to say the least). Good for you for understanding that. And so surely because Russia is so evil, they also love it when their ethnic kin are getting bombed and pogromed, when their language and religion are suppressed by Ukrainian ethno-nationalists who are being used by the west as a dagger at the belly of Russia.
Your last paragraph is a tirade calling me basically an eurolib and linking me to the Spanish empire (like, seriously, wtf) for not wanting to defend the modern Russian capitalist regime.
If you feel called out by it, then maybe you should be lol. My point was less to link you to the empire (though it surely is interesting, that you Euros and the white west in general seem so eager to offload your imperial guilt onto others through whataboutism) than it was to call you a Eurolib, though- which yes, I do think you are.
Russia has many, many issues (as all states do), and it is an explicitly capitalist, by-and-large reactionary state. But anyone shitting on it (even if they can recognize NATO is objectively worse) by painting it as “imperialist” and comparing it as akin to the west (“90% vs 99% Hitler”) is failing to understand its role, both in the current Ukranian conflict and in the broader world economy, which is decidedly not imperialist, and in fact (though they would no doubt much rather have been welcomed into the imperialist fold- Putin himself did try to join NATO after all) anti-imperialist by necessity of survival.
And yes, I think it’s a particularly lib thing to want to stand against, or wash your hands of the matter by calling it a “inter-imperialist conflict,” as such. If you’re only looking to support saints and paragons of virtue (not that Russia is anywhere close to that) you’ll find yourself with a very small pool of support or solidarity, though I suppose your Euro conscience will feel better and self-righteous for it. You yourself can recognize that Russia’s struggle is if anything, anti-imperialist- it is literally in defense of its nation, as well as (coincidentally or otherwise- more coincidentally than not) the rights of the ethnic Russo-Ukranians, etc from western imperialism. But if you want to sit on the sidelines and “both sides” it, continue being a Eurolib by all means.
And Russia is in this war to “expand its markets and abuse cheap resources/labor” how?
It’s not currently doing so because it doesn’t have the power to do so. The economic and political system that Russia defends is fundamentally identical to that of the NATO block, and it would lead to the same imperialism in other countries if Russia had the upper hand in geopolitics. The same can’t be said of, for example, China, or the former USSR. I will support those two countries in their struggles against US imperialism, I won’t defend Russia because the result if it wins will be the same but on the other side of the Pacific Ocean.
I think the sensible analysis would show Putin (being a lib and still having wished to be a comprador then) didn’t want this war in the first place
Obviously. The point is that Russia is forced to it both by the NATO block, and by the economic system it espouses. It’s the same as a bigger, more powerful company, forcing a smaller competing company into harsh competition. The smaller one clearly loses from it, but it’s the dynamic of the system and that doesn’t make me want to defend the smaller one or to give any resources to it.
The only way I can understand defense of the Russian government as it is now, is to claim that a multipolar imperialist world is better than a unipolar imperialist world with the NATO block leading. If that’s your point, I partially agree, but from there to saying “actually becoming a soldier in Russia is based”, there’s a huge jump. Btw, I suppose that the talks for negotiation of peace that China is proposing are equally eurolib as I am?
If you’re only looking to support saints and paragons of virtue (not that Russia is anywhere close to that) you’ll find yourself with a very small pool of support or solidarity
Yes, that’s sadly been the tendency of the state of affairs since the fall of the USSR. I wish there were plenty more communist countries in the world right now. What’s your point, that the lack of communist allies means I need to lend my support to 90% Hitler?
Crazy that you looked for my nationality on other comments on my post history just to have a leg to stand on to call me a “eurolib” or to doubt my feelings towards the Spanish Empire tbh. If I were American you’d be calling me a US imperialist, because at the end of the day you’re not looking for a discussion in the safe space that Hexbear is supposed to be, you’re just looking to score some extra points being a debatelord.
