Yeah, you are way down the toxic masculinty trip, that you fail to differentiate what of these things are what people actually want and what they think they want, because it was instilled into them by society.
Usually the people that present this to the outside are emotionally very fragile and break down easily, just not in public. Also your inability to find a community is not the issue of changed expectations, but of your own ability to socialise. And that typically stems from the “old school” training you probably received by your parents and male guardian figures in your life.
That “old school tough” typically involves denying your own emotions and punishing emotions in other people, be it women deemed “hysterical” or men deemed “weak”. But nothing is more weaker than that.
Meanwhile “real men” don’t need to get into bar fights because they cannot handle the fact, that their coworker isn’t into them. They actually face up to their emotions and deal with them constructively.
Sometimes what they want and what society says they want is the same thing.
I didn’t say I didn’t have a community I said people find it hard. I have had plenty of communities whether it was from clubs or sports or friends or more recently travelling. You’re just making incorrect assumptions here.
That’s just not true. No one has ever taught me to lash out at anyone. This is the exact issue I’m talking about and if you take nothing else away from what I have said look at this. As soon as someone (me) talks about masculinity being good for some people someone (you) attacks me for it and says it isn’t right. A lot of men want to be tough they don’t want someone to told their hand. It’s not a “oh you messed up hunny, you want to lean on my shoulder and cry. It won’t happen again.” it’s a “you fucked up and let the team down. Smash some cunts in the next tackle like I know you can” then when that happens you get a “that’s fucking more like it”. Yet somehow that level of support goes to you beat your wife or something as you are going on about. It is exactly the issue I am talking about.
You’re just wrong on this.
Traditional male support that a lot of people born traditionally male respond well too. But other people on the outside look down on us and discourage boys from having that support.
Even something as simple as all mens groups are heavily discouraged.
you are argueing against a strawman. Ibam not aware that anyone is demanding men to break down and cry on a shoulder when they fail to do something. Noone is forbidding men from being strong, be it emotionally or physically.
But when you talk about being agressive and “smashinf cunts” that of course means lashing out and attacking people for no proper reason.
In OP’s defense I read that is if it were in the context of like a rugby game, and I agree with OP that physical sports one can be a healthy outlet for men, it doesn’t have to be bar fighting levels of violence.
Yes they are though. People say if men keep their emotions bottled up and don’t cry or talk about their emotions it’s a bad thing. The fact that men express their worries, emotion and support in a different way is the issue because so many people do not like it and try stop it.
I have no idea how you got to attacking people when I was clearly talking about team sport. Obviously punching unsuspecting people is bad but that is horrifically different to what I was saying. Killing people is also bad, but equally that isn’t what I said.
People have told me I shouldn’t act the way that emotionally supports me. People have told me contact sports should be banned, boys shouldn’t rough house, calling your friend a cunt is not acceptable in anyway, being loud and singing in a way that does not disrupts others isn’t okay, playing voluntary games like drinking or slapping each other is unacceptable. People have told me that team sport, and men only environment, is negative for society because I believe it allows men to act in a way that is natural to them, yet some people don’t like it.
Boys and men should be supported in doing things that help them. Wether it’s making friendship groups where you can call your friends cunts or where they will look out for you when needed.
Yeah, you are way down the toxic masculinty trip, that you fail to differentiate what of these things are what people actually want and what they think they want, because it was instilled into them by society.
Usually the people that present this to the outside are emotionally very fragile and break down easily, just not in public. Also your inability to find a community is not the issue of changed expectations, but of your own ability to socialise. And that typically stems from the “old school” training you probably received by your parents and male guardian figures in your life.
That “old school tough” typically involves denying your own emotions and punishing emotions in other people, be it women deemed “hysterical” or men deemed “weak”. But nothing is more weaker than that.
Meanwhile “real men” don’t need to get into bar fights because they cannot handle the fact, that their coworker isn’t into them. They actually face up to their emotions and deal with them constructively.
Sometimes what they want and what society says they want is the same thing.
I didn’t say I didn’t have a community I said people find it hard. I have had plenty of communities whether it was from clubs or sports or friends or more recently travelling. You’re just making incorrect assumptions here.
That’s just not true. No one has ever taught me to lash out at anyone. This is the exact issue I’m talking about and if you take nothing else away from what I have said look at this. As soon as someone (me) talks about masculinity being good for some people someone (you) attacks me for it and says it isn’t right. A lot of men want to be tough they don’t want someone to told their hand. It’s not a “oh you messed up hunny, you want to lean on my shoulder and cry. It won’t happen again.” it’s a “you fucked up and let the team down. Smash some cunts in the next tackle like I know you can” then when that happens you get a “that’s fucking more like it”. Yet somehow that level of support goes to you beat your wife or something as you are going on about. It is exactly the issue I am talking about.
You’re just wrong on this.
Traditional male support that a lot of people born traditionally male respond well too. But other people on the outside look down on us and discourage boys from having that support.
Even something as simple as all mens groups are heavily discouraged.
you are argueing against a strawman. Ibam not aware that anyone is demanding men to break down and cry on a shoulder when they fail to do something. Noone is forbidding men from being strong, be it emotionally or physically.
But when you talk about being agressive and “smashinf cunts” that of course means lashing out and attacking people for no proper reason.
In OP’s defense I read that is if it were in the context of like a rugby game, and I agree with OP that physical sports one can be a healthy outlet for men, it doesn’t have to be bar fighting levels of violence.
yeah but noone is seriously claiming that rugby needs to stop. So hes argueing against complete strawmen
Yes they are though. People say if men keep their emotions bottled up and don’t cry or talk about their emotions it’s a bad thing. The fact that men express their worries, emotion and support in a different way is the issue because so many people do not like it and try stop it.
I have no idea how you got to attacking people when I was clearly talking about team sport. Obviously punching unsuspecting people is bad but that is horrifically different to what I was saying. Killing people is also bad, but equally that isn’t what I said.
People have told me I shouldn’t act the way that emotionally supports me. People have told me contact sports should be banned, boys shouldn’t rough house, calling your friend a cunt is not acceptable in anyway, being loud and singing in a way that does not disrupts others isn’t okay, playing voluntary games like drinking or slapping each other is unacceptable. People have told me that team sport, and men only environment, is negative for society because I believe it allows men to act in a way that is natural to them, yet some people don’t like it.
Boys and men should be supported in doing things that help them. Wether it’s making friendship groups where you can call your friends cunts or where they will look out for you when needed.