It was only a matter of time before an irate tradie threw hands at them.
We don’t get paid to sit in traffic.
What really stands out with these incidents is that all the handwringing against the protests themselves and how they should be ‘doing it the right way’ is total bullshit.
Turns out direct action (up to and including violence) is justified… If you’re delayed getting somewhere in your car by 15 mins. However, nonviolent direct action about our own government dithering on the biggest crisis humanity has ever faced is too much.
Direct action is typically justifiable against the people who have the power to change things
Everyone hates these people because they’re screwing over commuters, if they blocked a National party conference I wouldn’t be so bothered.
Everyone doesn’t hate them. You shouldn’t presume everyone is as hateful and angry as you. Most people in this country are decent and nice.
I totally understand people getting angry at this sort of thing… I’m 100% behind their cause, not so sure on their tactics.
But it’s just a shame that people are not as angry about the inaction on climate change. The inconvenience caused by the protesters is a micro-fraction of the pain that climate change is already causing and will continue to cause.
The whole purpose of protest is to be disruptive. Protests that don’t disrupt don’t get anything done because you will never hear about it and you won’t know about it. Who is going to report a protest that’s indistinguishable from everyday life?
This is a much more immediate and tangible effect though. Climate change is much more abstract.
Is it abstract to people who have lost their relatives or their houses to weather events this year?
People don’t think like that though.
A lot of people don’t, no. And that’s the problem… which is why I was saying it’s a shame. We are in for far more grief than almost anyone realises… the scale of the effects is well outside what most people can really imagine. And it can be avoided if we take concerted action… even at this late stage. But we’re not.
Only because there aren’t enough protests. If we had more protests and caused more tradies to be late then they would think that way.
Maybe they should?
You don’t get to decide how people think.
You can change the way they think by protesting. That’s the whole purpose of protesting.
I don’t see a measurable increase in extreme weather events as “abstract”.
One of those things is numbers and statistics, one of them is right in front of you.
ok, you need to look up the definition of abstract, because numbers and statistics are, by their nature, not abstract.
Pedantry, my friend.🥱 You’re missing the point.
15 min late and delaying 5,000 or so people is literally a number and stats
Not when it’s your time being wasted
Besides, the delay caused would have been a lot more than fifteen minutes.
Article literally says started just before 8, taken into custody at 815.
And yes, they got delayed 15 min. A well paid trade makes what - 60-80 and hour? Assault charges are now worth what… $15-20??? Can I now throw some around for a little less than dinner? For making roadworks? Because a meeting runs over by 15 min? There is no way to justify assault for a 15 min wait.
The delay caused by this would have been much worse than fifteen minutes, because this would have had a ripple effect all through rush hour.
And trades charge that much, they probably keep less than half of it as profit.
Are you a child? Because you seem genuinely ignorant of how the world works.
Unfortunately it’s also only a matter of time before climate change gets worse - we’ve already seen what’s happening in the northern hemisphere. Regardless of who is in the road or what work you need to get to, hitting and carrying a person on the front of your car or assault deserves charges, especially as the cops cleared it in ~15 minutes anyway.
Saying that - protesting is also meant to get people on your side rather than just raise awareness. This one didn’t.
If there’s a gofundme for this guy’s legal costs, I’m chipping in. You don’t get to fuck with someone’s livelihood like this.
So you believe 15 minutes of delay justifies assault?
I mean, if you want to go that path carbon emissions is fucking with most of our livelihoods and its also a known, direct correction. Does that mean I can deck every tradie in a ranger?
You’re not really living up to your username.
I have to disagree - calm and patient.
I didn’t see anyone doing jack fucking shit about Brian cult leader Tamaki blocking the motorway, so as far as I can tell, anyone can block the roads and it’s totally fine.
It started with the Covid “checkpoints”, and it’s been downhill from there.
It’s a bit late now, but what are people’s thoughts on whether this is the right community for this? It seems pretty political, even if it’s not about a political party.
For future posts, should things like this go in !politics@lemmy.nz or is !newzealand@lemmy.nz ok?
Edit: I think the sense I’m getting is that this would be at home in either community.
Personally I don’t think it should have to go in politics, but then I don’t really mind political posts (even party political stuff, although already a bit over the election campaign!)
Yes, agreed to put it in politics.
@Dave @Ilovethebomb blocking the motorway seems like public interest reporting. I guess follow-up reports on trials and mp responses is for politics.
Everything is political to some extent though, where do you draw the line?
That’s the question 😆. For this one, because they are directly campaigning the government to do something, it seemed political to me. But that’s what I’m seeking opinions on.
This one seems a lot more politically focused than say the article about the company intentionally damaging archeological sites that was posted earlier today.
Isn’t the irony here that making cars sit idling instead of getting where they’re going causes more pollution?
Who are these protests convincing? Do they even say what their demands are other than a completely unspecific and unhelpful “combat climate change”?
I’m pretty sure they have specific demands, asking for better inter-city passenger trains. It says in the article the protesters are from the “Restore Passenger Rail climate action group”.
I don’t know their strategy, but if their intention is to get publicity for the cause then the term “it doesn’t matter what they are saying about you, as long as they’re talking about you” comes to mind.
It kinda does matter what they’re saying about you when you’re trying to get public support for a cause though.
I have heard anecdotally that when these sorts of protests are going on, the “mainstream” environmental organisations get a lot more interest. So it could be that it is actually working, even though most people don’t like the tactics.
It won’t, because their demands simply aren’t feasible or cost effective.
They actually are quite specific in what they want, they want a restoration of all our intercity rail services, to a level of service that existed back in the nineties. It’s not about commuter rail, as many commenters here seem to think.
In other words, they want the government to spend a few hundred mill on rolling stock, and still more on other subsidies, on a service that would take nearly twice as long to go between Auckland and Wellington as a bus. They’ve completely lost touch with reality.
This is also ignoring the fact that diesel rail isn’t that much better than road transport, and can even be worse.
This is also ignoring the fact that diesel rail isn’t that much better than road transport, and can even be worse.
Huh? I mean sure, we should electrify all our rail. But moving hundreds of people in one diesel train produces way less emissions than hundreds of cars.
Yes, indeed, diesel trains emit lower emissions when more than 1/3 full. See also #10 here
And, diesel is not the final solution, but it’s a first step. If the protesters would ask for 100% electrified rail it would be shut down as well by opponents that it’s too hard. So I think it’s a very good option to switch to diesel rail for now.
You’re comparing private to public transport though, while ignoring another public alternative that is already operating.
I don’t get why people are so snobby about buses.
Buses are less comfortable than cars, and are probably also slower than a car.
Trains are more comfortable and can be faster than driving.
They’re also far more affordable though. Rail is expensive.
I’m comparing other public transport options, namely road based PT.
Comparing a train to a car is kinda comparing apples to nectarines.
Bus is always going to be limited to whatever the road network can support, and face problems like traffic.
Rail can be improved way above what it is in NZ currently. It could be much faster than taking a car, as it is in many parts of the world. e.g. see: https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/regional-rapid-rail/
In other words, they want the government to spend a few hundred mill on rolling stock, and still more on other subsidies, on a service that would take nearly twice as long to go between Auckland and Wellington as a bus.
Driving time WLG <=> AKL is about 7.5 hours. Assuming a 15 minute break every 2 hours, that’s about 8.5 hours. It’s 650km, so that’s about 76km/hour on average. I’m sure a train can go as fast / faster than that; definitely not <40km/hour like you suggest.
The northern explorer is 10h 15min Auckland to Wellington, and travels almost exactly the same distance.
I thought it was slower, but it’s still much slower than road transport.
Yep as right now it’s a scenic route, so no focus on speed. I agree, right now it’s not a very good alternative to driving. That’s the point, that should be improved; it should be faster than driving.
It’s actually faster than a bus somehow, although a bus ticket is forty bucks.
