Chicago Police and the FBI are investigating if saboteurs placed bugs in a breakfast buffet prepared for delegates at the Democratic National Convention on Wednesday.
“Multiple unknown female offenders are alleged to have entered a building…and began placing unknown objects onto tables containing food,” the convention’s information center said in a statement. “The offenders are believed to have then left the area. One victim was treated and released on-scene. Along with CPD, FBI-Chicago is assisting in the investigation.”
You are making this the ONLY issue in the world. I fucking hate the israeli government for what they are doing. Fuck israel. But you are willing to let everyone around you burn for this. Willing to let lgbt, people of color, students, poor people and the working class be oppressed and possibly murdered. Because trump WILL make sure of that.
Sounds like what’s happening right fucking now under a Democrat presidency!
How many times do you have to try to kick Lucy’s football before you realize that she’s punking you?!?
Voting for President merely ratifies decisions already made by capital. I’m not voting for your candidate, and I refuse to be guilted for decisions already made by capital.
Trump winning would be an indicator of the trajectory you have no control over as far as the ballot box is concerned.
No I am not. I want people to organize themselves against the system, not within it. The system itself is the problem. Having “”“good people”“” is insufficient to get even mediocre change. See self-described socialist AOC speedrunning ghoulification.
your rhetoric only serves to further de legitimize your position. you’re basically a caricature of a useless tankie.
Ah yes, expressing schadenfreude against the Dems as a possibly overzealous condemnation of a genocide == sending in the tanks against an uprising
keep playin like it’s the democrats fault. it’s nice when morons self-identify
The genocide is happening now, under Biden, who could end this in a day.
I have more respect for the people with their ‘single issue voter’ defense of genocide. They at least aren’t living in a fantasy land that Trump is responsible for Biden’s actions.
Most of us are not organizing within the system to fix it. We are voting as a way of putting our foot on the breaks while we organize outside of it. The train is going fast. Trump accelerates it and Harris makes it go slower.
Voting does not mean we are organizing inside the system. Its a half baked measure we use to our advantage.
Nobody is saying Harris will stop or reverse the train. But we are not going accelerate the train and hurt even more people than it already is. We are privileged to be hanging off the sides instead of laying on the tracks like many many others.
I got no beef with people voting for Democrats in the general election, even though I disagree with their choice, because it doesn’t affect the outcome of anything. My beef is with these delegates, these people in a position of influence and power.
Of course we shouldn’t accelerate the “train”, I cannot stress enough that I agree with that statement and that accelerationism is bad, but it is my view that
I fear that you’re mistaking your own pessimism for absolute truth, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
What, in your view, needs to be done?
Indigenous Action did a great write-up on this topic. Although to be completely honest, the point of this thread was really to condemn the DNC delegates specifically. Actually, I brought up voting at all in this thread in response to the suggestion that I am:
As a poor grad student, and sibling to two lovely LGBT POC for whom I would literally kill to protect, this is a particularly offensive implication (from a different user!) that I often see bundled with pro-electoralism rhetoric, so I preemptively brought in Colin Ward’s article against voting.
In the large, abolish all authority and hierarchy by popular revolution. If that is impossible, then approximate it as best as possible in the real world using a basis of popular liberatory actions emulating the end goal.
In the small, these delegates could use their power to physically and logistically disrupt the DNC until at least the US ending weapons transfers is secured. For everyone else, support protesters for Gaza in your life, show up to the protests if you can, do direct actions [1] if you can … do nothing if you have to, but most importantly, don’t cooperate with the war machine!
I hope this clarifies what I meant by saying:
Because while voting doesn’t necessarily hurt direct action efforts [2], it doesn’t help either. It’s just a completely independent class of activity. It’s like if, on a typical x-y plane (where the x and y axes are assumed to be orthogonal), we need to move in (let’s say) the positive x direction, and people keep spamming inputs in the y direction.
[1] Just the first part of section J.2, not including J.2.1 and onward. The rest is supplementary.
[2] There is an argument to be made (and I believe the article I cited makes it) that activism for voting takes time and energy that would otherwise be spent on direct action. Also, technically speaking, voting does literally take time away from direct action for the amount of time you’re waiting to vote and actually in the booth, but I’m an engineer so I’m willing to neglect small-valued terms 😆.
When fascists take power it’s not unheard of for them to line up commies and anarchists against a wall and shoot them. I’m all for ideological utopianism, I’ve lived on intentional communities in the country and anarchist collectives in the city, but preserving your moral superiority is little comfort when you and your family are staring down the barrel of a fascist’s gun.
The Answer.
From the song’s lyrics:
That’s kind of an obnoxious response when you yourself said:
(emphasis mine) followed by:
Like you basically asked for my answer after saying you’d be willing to be convinced. You asked “what needs to be done?”, and I replied with things that I think need to be done. If you didn’t ask, I would have kept my mouth shut because frankly I’m pathologically disinterested in telling people what to do, probably to a fault. If you weren’t convinced then that’s fine, but it’s just kind of obnoxious to ask for an answer and then chide me for giving you my answer.
Yes, and that’s why we need to prepare ourselves for when they do, which they WILL do regardless of who gets elected as the figurehead.
I’m not [2]! I have explained over and over again all throughout my responses in this post’s comment section that I have very practical motivations for why voting is a waste of time. I encourage you to go through my comment history and see what I have said to others in this thread.
Yo literally the first thing I posted in this comment section was a meme dunking on the delegates and their misery, which is bar none the most engagement I have received on any comment and almost all of it negative. No one here thinks I’m morally superior. And in case you were wondering, I don’t like me either.
So let’s explicitly do away with the moral superiority pretense [1].
Yes, exactly, that’s why we need to build our community defenses against these fascist pricks before they kill us, keeping in mind that we’re in a liberal dominated community on a “civility-at-all-costs” instance where we’re not allowed to talk seriously about revolution!
But as I have said to other users, particularly the comment you initially replied to:
So go vote Democrat if that makes you feel safe, I’m not going to bring it up again because it doesn’t matter, but I’m not gonna pretend that it’s helpful.
But also keep in mind that these are the assholes who platformed a cop over a Palestinian in the middle of their genocide…
Again, I invite you to reread what I’ve commented to you so far, and to go through my comment history and see what I’ve said to others.
[1] Really, my position is, boiled down, that supposedly “practical” solutions that violate common morality (for example, letting people die to save money in *insert industry here*) are not really practical at all. This inextricably couples practicality to morality.
Frankly, as a human actor who fails to always act practically, I acknowledge that for similar reasons, sometimes I also fail to act morally, i.e. in laughing at the pain of other humans because they happen to collude with an evil institution. Hence why I reject the idea that I am morally superior, and that I have asserted as such anywhere in this comment section.
And in the sense that the means should reflect the ends, I admit that I haven’t lived up to my own ideals, out of anger and irritation at the constant stream of bullshit being foisted on me and everyone I know by these very Democrat ghouls.
But I don’t believe that I need to be a perfect moral actor to speak out about Palestine and the fascists at the DNC!
[2] For similar reasons as those in [1], ideology should be coupled to practicality, which itself should be coupled to morality. Hence why I’m not interested in anarchism as a utopian ideology where anything is prescribed, but as a practical solution for humanity to overcome capitalism.
I didn’t ask for your answer, I asked for your opinion. I already knew that you didn’t have the answer. Nether do I.
I was young, idealistic, autistic, and naive myself, once, long ago. Still autistic, but less young, idealistic, and naive these days. I tripped over my ideals and ethics for a long time before figuring out how to survive in this capitalist hellscape. I’m still not very good at it, and my path needn’t be yours. I won’t shove it down your throat.
I wasn’t sharing that song with the intent to be adversarial. I shared it because Bad Religion has been a very helpful band for me throughout my young-adulthood, and their lyrics continue to help me to this day. No offense intended. My opinion of what this song meant, for example, when I was young, was vastly different to the meaning I take from it now.
I’m very familiar with anarchist theory and the praxis thereof. I read all of the links you provided and I don’t wholly disagree with the bulk of it. Please don’t get me wrong.
BUT. Refusing to vote against fascists because of ideological distaste is indeed moral superiority, whether you want to admit that or not. People can die.
I have no love for Democrats, and I don’t in any way identify as one. I do, however, have a great love for game theory, and game theory tells me that there’s only one correct decision to make where voting in the USA in 2024 is concerned. I will continue to take direct action to further my own personal beliefs and ideologies, but I won’t let that stand in the way of doing things that I find morally distasteful (such as voting for a Democrat) to keep fascists out of power.
I hope this doesn’t come across as condescending. I don’t mean it that way but people often tell me I’m being condescending. I wish you all the best in life. Please let me know if there’s anything I can do to help you in any way, and don’t hesitate to reach out if you want a conversational partner or a sympathetic ear. I’m always open to discussing the world with intelligent people.
If you’re interested in communal living or alternative lifestyles (at it pertains to anarchist communities), I’m happy to help there, as well. I think I still have some friends that know folx at Emma Goldman Finishing School in Seattle. Admittedly, I don’t know if they’re looking for any new members right now, but I’d be happy to put a word in for you.
You apparently don’t understand the word intersectional.
You also need to reread this:
Genocide is something that is binary, and you are either against it or a fascist. There is no middle ground with genocide.
The DNC has already started to indicate they will throw trans people under the bus next.
Incredibly reductive and divisive.
Bravo.