That’s a book on migrations and deportations, not a book on casualties, it doesn’t seem to support a claim of “hundreds of thousands murdered” which you made in your previous comment, could you please elaborate?
Again, you’re conflating murdered with deported
It most certainly includes direct casualty numbers as well, for Poland and many other conflicts.
Great, please name one of them that doesn’t imply complete occupation of Poland by Nazis
I just can’t envision an alternative reality
Well, I think that’s the main issue here. Siding with the nazis, attacking Poland in the rear when they were fighting the nazis, committing horrible crimes against the Polish population and POWs … You really, really cannot imagine not having to do even one of those
It most certainly includes direct casualty numbers as well
Good, then we both agree the source doesn’t support the “hundreds of thousands murdered in Poland” claim.
For the last time: I have asked at this point in 4 different occasions what was the desirable alternative to a Soviet military occupation of eastern Poland after the Polish, English and French rejection of a mutual defense agreement with the USSR.
The fact that you fail to provide an answer after being clearly prompted 4 different times to give one, is enough evidence to me that you simply don’t have one. I will then state the obvious: the Soviet military occupation of Eastern Poland likely prevented hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles, Roma and other ethnicities from being genocided by the OTHERWISE INEVITABLE Nazi invasion.
You really, really cannot imagine not having to do
No, I really cannot pretend knowing more about defeating fascism in Europe that the nation which ultimately defeated fascism, at the IMMENSE cost of 25 million lives in the struggle against Nazism. It’s easy to go with our hindsight and categorise the oppression of bourgeois and nationalist elements of Poland as unnecessary and “barbaric”. But you known what, I’m not Polish, I’m Spanish. I’m from the country where the communists did not go far enough, and the result was losing a preventable civil war against fascists which murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents, and the 4 decades of fascism that followed. So, no, my claim is NOT that I know more about fighting fascism than those who actually defeated it.
Good, then we both agree the source doesn’t support the “hundreds of thousands murdered in Poland” claim.
Lol, if you want to try and move the goalposts from my “murdered Poles” to your “in Poland”, I can only say that’s just childish. Do you think it’s better if they died in Russia?
No, I really cannot pretend knowing more about defeating fascism in Europe that the nation which ultimately defeated fascism, at the IMMENSE cost of 25 million lives in the struggle against Nazism.
Hexbear incoming. “They helped defeat the nazis so the bottom line is we can’t criticize them”.
Imagine how we would look at the US if they had decided it was more profitable to just team up with the nazis instead
Lol, if you want to try and move the goalposts from my “murdered Poles”
No, my claim is that you’re equating deported with murdered when you quote said book talking about “hundreds of thousands of murders”, not that murdered after deportation don’t count.
Yet again you fail to provide an alternative to the military occupation of Eastern Poland by the Soviet Union. The only possible alternative was Nazi occupation. I’m not trying to justify Katyn, I’m saying that the invasion itself was justified and that’s proven by the fact that you cannot even theoretically come up with a better alternative with 80 years of hindsight.
Imagine how we would look at the US if they had decided it was more profitable to just team up with the nazis instead
I don’t have to imagine, the US not only teamed up with but propped up fascism all over the globe. I’m Spanish myself, the Franco dictatorship was legitimised by the USA for its entire existence, but I could bring up Suharto in Indonesia, Pinochet in Chile, or an endless list of fascists supported by the USA. Invading eastern Poland and preventing it from being invaded by Nazis isn’t “teaming up with the Nazis”, I’m sorry that you can’t see beyond cold-war propaganda.
It most certainly includes direct casualty numbers as well, for Poland and many other conflicts.
Well, I think that’s the main issue here. Siding with the nazis, attacking Poland in the rear when they were fighting the nazis, committing horrible crimes against the Polish population and POWs … You really, really cannot imagine not having to do even one of those
Good, then we both agree the source doesn’t support the “hundreds of thousands murdered in Poland” claim.
For the last time: I have asked at this point in 4 different occasions what was the desirable alternative to a Soviet military occupation of eastern Poland after the Polish, English and French rejection of a mutual defense agreement with the USSR.
The fact that you fail to provide an answer after being clearly prompted 4 different times to give one, is enough evidence to me that you simply don’t have one. I will then state the obvious: the Soviet military occupation of Eastern Poland likely prevented hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles, Roma and other ethnicities from being genocided by the OTHERWISE INEVITABLE Nazi invasion.
No, I really cannot pretend knowing more about defeating fascism in Europe that the nation which ultimately defeated fascism, at the IMMENSE cost of 25 million lives in the struggle against Nazism. It’s easy to go with our hindsight and categorise the oppression of bourgeois and nationalist elements of Poland as unnecessary and “barbaric”. But you known what, I’m not Polish, I’m Spanish. I’m from the country where the communists did not go far enough, and the result was losing a preventable civil war against fascists which murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents, and the 4 decades of fascism that followed. So, no, my claim is NOT that I know more about fighting fascism than those who actually defeated it.
Lol, if you want to try and move the goalposts from my “murdered Poles” to your “in Poland”, I can only say that’s just childish. Do you think it’s better if they died in Russia?
Hexbear incoming. “They helped defeat the nazis so the bottom line is we can’t criticize them”.
Imagine how we would look at the US if they had decided it was more profitable to just team up with the nazis instead
No, my claim is that you’re equating deported with murdered when you quote said book talking about “hundreds of thousands of murders”, not that murdered after deportation don’t count.
Yet again you fail to provide an alternative to the military occupation of Eastern Poland by the Soviet Union. The only possible alternative was Nazi occupation. I’m not trying to justify Katyn, I’m saying that the invasion itself was justified and that’s proven by the fact that you cannot even theoretically come up with a better alternative with 80 years of hindsight.
I don’t have to imagine, the US not only teamed up with but propped up fascism all over the globe. I’m Spanish myself, the Franco dictatorship was legitimised by the USA for its entire existence, but I could bring up Suharto in Indonesia, Pinochet in Chile, or an endless list of fascists supported by the USA. Invading eastern Poland and preventing it from being invaded by Nazis isn’t “teaming up with the Nazis”, I’m sorry that you can’t see beyond cold-war propaganda.