There is a book called “On Being Certain”, by Robert A Burton who’s a neurologist, discussing how we know what we know. He postulates that the sense of “conviction” has less to do with objective reality and far more to do with “a feeling of knowing.” He also suggests that we are far less self-aware than we think we are.

People see a different viewpoint and their body reactively brings up all the conditioning received from popular advice. Instinctively, they hit the downvote button, thinking that they are rightfully decreasing the noise of a dangerous idea and protecting the less aware.

Most people aren’t interested in debate nor challenging the reality they find themselves in, or even the framing and interpretation of that reality.

Is lemmy supposed to be better then other social media?

How do we make lemmy a more thoughtful place? Or how do we create meaningful spaces on lemmy for thoughtful discussion of opposing views?

  • Valmond@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    I have tried to talk with the anti-ai crowd, but they seem as stubborn as the regular tankie. My takeaway was that fear and anger regulated discussions quite a bit. A shame IMO.

    • jetOPMA
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      1 month ago

      Yeah, the anti-ai people seem to be quite emotional in spreading their hate, even when it makes sense to use algorithms to do something (like identify cancer cells in imaging)

      We need a place on lemmy that doesn’t reward the knee jerk emotional takes. Do you think its possible to make such a place here? if not, what would we require?

      • Washedupcynic@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        AI can absolutely be helpful and beneficial, but AI is only as good as the data it’s fed, and the humans programming it. As someone that is anti-AI this is the crux of any argument I make about AI. I don’t hate AI, but I do think adopting it blanket wide in every facet of our lives is dangerous. If you create a community that suppresses opposition to AI, even if you think they are emotional responses, you’re just creating an echo chamber.

        • jetOPMA
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          1 month ago

          The goal is how to create a place for meaningful discussion, so how can we both have sentiment but still room for nuance?

      • scintilla@crust.piefed.social
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        1 month ago

        Well it would help if the type if AI you are talking about was the one that the “anti-AI” people were talking about but it’s not. Gen AI is not what is being used to find cancer cells.

        • jetOPMA
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          1 month ago

          A good discussion on a topic should include drawing the line between machine learning, generative models, markov chains, self-weighting matrices, and other general algorithms.

          The issue is not that people dislike something, its that they disrupt other conversations on topics in a effort to suppress the discussion or chill participation.

        • Valmond@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          There are lots of people who use generative AI for good things, so what about that? I mean there are lots of bad stuff like IP theft, energy usage etc, but there are also positive sides, that’s why it’d be interesting to hear everyone out IMO. And it’s not like it’s going away just because some are angry about it.

          It’s like electric cars, great but uses rare earth minerals, nuclear, plastics, almost nothing is either black or white.

          Or so I think.

          • scintilla@crust.piefed.social
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            1 month ago

            Its always really interesting how people say this and can list examples of the negatives but never bring up examples of the positives because they know that people will start arguing over wether or not they are really positive. Or if you really need generative AI to accomplish the goal they are using it for.

            Also not let’s not ignore that gen AI is reversing the little climate progress we have made in the last few years. Let’s also not ignore that it has caused multiple people to undergo psychosis. Multiple people have killed themselves after being encouraged to do so by AI. The world has been made actively worse by the advent of wide spread gen AI that is being subsidized by the public who has no say in the matter.

            • Valmond@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              That’s all fair points, I like the one about “why can’t you do it without AI?!” Maybe I can but it’s easier with?

              Where do you get the “ai has reversed the little climate progress we have made”? If you have a link I’d be very interested because the energy consumption of (generative) AI seems to be all over the place and no one really knows for sure.

              But a little critic ; when I was a kid, heavy metal “killed”. Should we stop all medications because sometimes they kill (they do)? What about knives, cars and alcohol (and for the USA, guns :-)?

              Everything is good and bad, well there are very few exceptions.

      • lost_faith@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        I hate the exploitative AI being pushed down our throats. I like how they use AI in exploring space, genetics, and other scientific endeavours, this is where AI shines. Not crammed into each and every device and/or app

      • Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip
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        1 month ago

        The problem is the media, and several invested interests, have caused most people to associate any mention of AI with LLMs. And many ignorant people in positions of power keep trying to use LLMs for things that LLMs are not good at or meant to be doing.