Want to wade into the sandy surf of the abyss? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)

  • rook@awful.systemsEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    I’m being shuffled sideways into a software architecture role at work, presumably because my whiteboard output is valued more than my code 😭 and I thought I’d try and find out what the rest of the world thought that meant.

    Turns out there’s almost no way of telling anymore, because the internet is filled with genai listicles on random subjects, some of which even have the same goddamn title. Finding anything from the beforetimes basically involves searching reddit and hoping for the best.

    Anyway, I eventually found some non-obviously-ai-generated work and books, and it turns out that even before llms flooded the zone with shit no-one knew what software architecture was, and the people who opined on it were basically in the business of creating bespoke hammers and declaring everything else to be the specific kind of nails that they were best at smashing.

    Guess I’ll be expensing a nice set of rainbow whiteboard markers for my personal use, and making it up as I go along.

    • V0ldek@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Guess I’ll be expensing a nice set of rainbow whiteboard markers for my personal use, and making it up as I go along.

      Congratulations, you figured it out! Read Clean Architecture and then ignore the parts you don’t like and you’ll make it

    • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Ugh OK I have to vent:

      I’m getting pushed into more of a design role because oops my company accidentally fired or drove away all of a team of a dozen people except for me after forgetting for a few years that the code I work on is actually mission critical.

      I do my best at designing stuff and delegating the implementation to my coworkers. It’s not one of my strengths but there’s enough technical debt from when I was solo-maintaining everything for a few years that I know what needs improving and how to improve it.

      But none of my coworkers are domain experts, they haven’t been given enough free time for me to train them into domain experts, there’s only one of me, and the higher ups are continuously surprised that stuff is going so slow. It’s frustrating for everyone involved.

      I actually wouldn’t mind architecture or design work in better circumstances since I love to chat with people; but it feels like my employer has put me in an impossible position. At the moment I’m just trying to hang in there for some health insurance reasons; but in a few years I plan to leave for greener pastures where I can go a day without hearing the word “agentic”.

    • x0rcist@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      The zone has indeed always been flooded, especially since its a title that collides with “integration architect” and other similar titles whose jobs are completely different. That being said, it’s a title I’ve held before, and I really enjoyed the work I got to do. My perspective will be a little skewed here because I specifically do security architecture work, which is mostly consulting-style “hey come look at this design we made is it bad?” rather than developing systems from scratch, but here’s my take:

      Architecture is mostly about systems thinking-- you’re not as responsible for whether each individual feature, service, component etc is implemented exactly to spec or perfectly correctly, but you are responsible for understanding how they’ll fit together, what parts are dangerous and DO need extra attention, and catching features/design elements early on that need to be cut because they’re impossible or create tons of unneeded tech debt. Speaking of tech debt, making the call about where its okay to have a component be awful and hacky, versus where v1 absolutely still needs to be bulletproof probably falls into the purvey of architecture work too. You’re also probably the person who will end up creating the system diagrams and at least the skeleton of the internal docs for your system, because you’re responsible for making sure people who interact with it understand its limitations as well.

      I think the reason so much of the advice on this sort of work is bad or nonexistent is that when you try to boil the above down to a set of concrete practices or checklists, they get utterly massive, because so much of the work (in my experience) is knowing what NOT to focus on, where you can get away with really general abstractions, etc, while still being technically capable enough to dive into the parts that really do deserve the attention.

      In addition to the nice markers and whiteboard, I’d plug getting comfortable with some sort of diagramming software, if you aren’t already. There’s tons of options, they’re all pretty much Fine IMO.

      For reading, I’d suggest at least checking out the first few chapters of Engineering A Safer World , as it definitely had a big influence on how I practice architecture.

    • zogwarg@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      On this topic I’ve been seeing more 503 lately, are the servers running into issue, or am i getting caught in anti-scraper cross-fire?

      • self@awful.systemsOPEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        nope, you’ve been getting caught in the fallout from us not having this yet. the scrapers have been so intense they’ve been crashing the instance repeatedly.

        • David Gerard@awful.systemsMEnglish
          0·
          3 months ago

          when you get this working i am totally copying this for rationalwiki

          i nearly installed caddy just to get iocaine

          • self@awful.systemsOPEnglish
            0·
            3 months ago

            I saw that! fortunately once iocaine is configured it seems to just work, but it’s also very much software that kicks and screams the entire way there. in my case the problem wasn’t even nginx-related, I just typoed the config section for the request handler and it silently defaulted to the mode where it returns garbage for every incoming request.

            • bitofhope@awful.systemsEnglish
              0·
              3 months ago

              Just a heads-up, I tried reading up on Iocaine and the project website is giving me the madlibs nonsense version on my phone’s browser, so I hope the version you’re planning to enable here isn’t quite as aggressive (the making.awful link is currently working for me).

              Between this and Cloudflare’s geolocation provider no longer saying my IPv6 address block is in Russia, I’m hopeful that my browsing experience might ever so slightly improve for a bit.

              • self@awful.systemsOPEnglish
                0·
                3 months ago

                making is running the version of the configuration I intend to deploy, so if it works for you there it should (hopefully) work in prod too

  • rook@awful.systemsEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    Pavan Davuluri is apparently the “president of windows and devices” at microsoft. I, for one, am glad that I moved to linux when windows 10 got the axe, before anything tried to agenticify my pc.

    Also, when did “frontier” become “first in lines to drink whatever it is the cult leader is serving up”?

    https://xcancel.com/pavandavuluri/status/1987942909635854336#m

    alt text

    Windows is evolving into an agentic OS, connecting devices, cloud, and AI to unlock intelligent productivity and secure work anywhere. Join us at #MSIgnite to see how frontier firms are transforming with Windows and what’s next for the platform. We can’t wait to show you!

    • istewart@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      “Agentic” is meant to seem sci-fi, but I can’t help but think it’s terminal business-speak. It’s the clearest statement yet of the attempted redesign of the computer from a personal device to a distinct entity separate from oneself. One is no longer a user or administrator, one is instead passively waiting for “agents” to complete a task on one’s behalf. This model is imposed from the top down, to be the strongest reinforcement yet of the all-important moat around the big vendors’ cloud businesses. Once you’re in deep with “agents,” your workflows will probably be so hopelessly tangled, vendor-specific, and non-debuggable/non-reimplementable that migrating them to another vendor would be a nightmare task orders of magnitude beyond any database or CRM migration. If your workflows even get any work done anymore at all.

      • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systemsEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        It’s worth noting how much the whole “agentic” marketing scheme is the opposite of this reality, too. Because after all the dream they’re selling is being able to do the Star Trek thing and just tell your computer to do it in plain English. But if that was what these companies were actually doing it would be very easy to migrate away if you wanted to, since you could just say “send me all our data in a format that $Competitor can easily onboard. I’m done with this shit” and then give the competitor’s system the same plain English prompt. The reality is that they don’t actually want to build the thing they’re as advertising even if they could because their whole business model is to make interacting with the computer as high-friction as possible so you’ll pay them to do it for you.

    • sc_griffith@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      further things: one, that’s the first website I’ve made where I wasn’t just plugging into a template, and I’m a little proud of it even though it’s almost nothing. I would appreciate feedback and suggestions

      two, a future episode idea I have is to examine what I’m thinking of as “the trustless society.” it’s about the replacing of social relations with legal or financial intermediaries. Those of you who are long time buttcoiners will be familiar with this process. if any of you have specific readings to recommend I would love to hear it. I’ll probably mostly focus on balaji but anyone or anything will help

      • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systemsEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        New site looks good! I think Let’sEncrypt is still the easiest and cheapest way to set up a decent cert but I’ve been away from IT for over a year now and someone else here can probably help point you in the right direction. At least for now the site probably doesn’t actually have security concerns it would address, but it pops up a browser alert on first hit so it’s probably a good idea?

        Also I just started listening to the latest episode while writing this up and had forgotten how great that opening medley is.

        • froztbyte@awful.systemsEnglish
          0·
          3 months ago

          +1 to letsencrypt for https. certbot can even auto-configure your webserver for you, taking it from http base to https-with-redirect, no terrible advice from shitty exist-for-volume blogs required

          superquick tldr:

          1. install certbot and the applicable plugin package for your webserver; if you don’t know the name use p.d.o (or your distro’s own) to find the package name
          2. run certbot; there’s extra flags you can pass if you want to automate, but ootb it’ll ask you questions and start the process for cert + config (iirc - I mostly run it automated and non-interactive)
          • sc_griffith@awful.systemsEnglish
            0·
            3 months ago

            it’s probably better for my development as a human being to learn this properly, but it turns out github pages hosting does the letsencrypt process if you check a box in the page settings

    • istewart@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Oh joy, I can perform a threat display by twirling it around my head like a bolo. I think I will get the pink or bright yellow one

    • mirrorwitch@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      More evidence for my conspiracy theory that all companies have switched their PR strategies to full-time ragebaiting. wake up sheeple

    • e8d79@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      I think they need to hire an English teacher for their marketing department.

      Introducing iPhone Pocket: a beautiful way to wear and carry ____ iPhone

      Please complete the sentence, a smartphone isn’t a person.

    • swlabr@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      In the last couple of years I have noticed that people have been using single purpose phone holders/straps (as opposed to a multipurpose thing holder like a handbag etc.), so I understand this as apple coming in a little late trying to cash in on a trend. That being said: Apple don’t try to make their soft material products to last, so I expect this to be hot garbage.

      • froztbyte@awful.systemsEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        this is a more perfect description than any I could’ve come up! my thesis was largely on what a boon it would prove to thieves (although I recognize that flavour of thief probably varies by country and not all have them)

  • EponymousBosh@awful.systemsEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    I doubt I’m the first one to think of this, but for some reason as I was drifting off to sleep last night, I was thinking about the horrible AI “pop” music that a lot of content farms use in their videos and my brain spat out the phrase Bubblegum Slop. Feel free to use it as you ses fit (or don’t, I ain’t your dad).

    • swlabr@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      tangent: I’ve seen people using this Bubblegum Slop (BS for short) in their social media stories. My guess is that fb/insta has started suggesting you use their slop instead of using music licensed from spotify, or something.

  • fullsquare@awful.systemsEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    new zitron: ed picks up calculator and goes through docs from microsoft and some others, and concludes that openai has less revenue than thought previously (probably?, ms or openai didn’t comment), spends more on inference than thought previously, openai revenue inferred from microsoft share is consistently well under inference costs https://www.wheresyoured.at/oai_docs/

    Before publishing, I discussed the data with a Financial Times reporter. Microsoft and OpenAI both declined to comment to the FT.

    If you ever want to share something with me in confidence, my signal is ezitron.76, and I’d love to hear from you.

    also on ft (alphaville) https://www.ft.com/content/fce77ba4-6231-4920-9e99-693a6c38e7d5

    ed notes that there might be other revenue, but that’s only inference with azure, and then there are training costs wherever it is filed under, debts, commitments, salaries, marketing, and so on and so on

    e: fast news day today eh?

  • jaschop@awful.systemsEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    Fresh from the presses: OpenAI loses song lyrics copyright case in German court

    GEMA (weird german authors’ rights management organisation) is suing OpenAI over replication of song lyrics among other stuff, seeking a license deal. Judge rules that whatever the fuck OpenAI does behind the scenes is irrelevant, if it can replicate lyrics exactly that’s unlawful replication.

    One of GEMA’s lawyers expects the case to be groundbreaking in europe, since the applicable rules are harmonized.

  • hrrrngh@awful.systemsEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    oh no not another cult. The Spiralists???

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1ovk9ce/this_article_is_absolutely_hilarious_you_can_see/

    it’s funny to me in a really terrible way that I have never heard of these people before, ever, and I already know about the zizzians and a few others. I thought there was one called revidia or recidia or something, but looking those terms up just brings up articles about the NXIVM cult and the Zizzians. and wasn’t there another one in california that was like, very straight forward about being an AI sci-fi cult, and they were kinda space themed? I think I’ve heard Rationalism described as a cult incubator and that feels very apt considering how many spinoff basilisk cults have been popping up

    some of their communities that somebody collated (I don’t think all of these are Spiralists): https://www.reddit.com/user/ultranooob/m/ai_psychosis/

    • swlabr@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      I think I’ve heard Rationalism described as a cult incubator

      Aside from the fact that rationalism is a cult in and of itself, this is true, no matter how you slice it. You can mean it with absolute glowing praise or total shade and either way it’s still true. Adhering to rationalist principles is pretty much reprogramming yourself to be susceptible to the subset of cults already associated with Rationalism.

      • swlabr@awful.systemsEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        Part of me wants an Ito-created body-horror metaphor for LLMs. The rest of me knows that LLMs are so mundane that the metaphor would probably still be shite.

        • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systemsEnglish
          0·
          3 months ago

          Given the amount of power some folks want to invest in them it may not be totally absurd to raise the spectre of Azathoth, the blind idiot God. A shapeless congeries of matrices and tables sending forth roiling tendrils of linear algebra to vomit forth things that look like reasonable responses but in some unmistakeable but undefinable way are not. Hell, the people who seem most inclined to delve deeply into their forbidden depths are as likely as not to go mad and be unable to share their discoveries if indeed they retain speech at all. And of course most of them are deeply racist.

          • Architeuthis@awful.systemsEnglish
            0·
            3 months ago

            I always thought it was cool that (there is a case to be made that) HPL created Azathoth, the monstrous nuclear chaos beyond angled space, as a mythological reimagining of a black hole. Stuff like The Dreams in the Witch-house shows he was up to date on a bunch of cutting edge for the time physics stuff, at least as far as terminology is concerned, massive nerd that he was.

          • WellsiteGeo@masto.ai
            0·
            3 months ago

            @YourNetworkIsHaunted @swlabr
            Why do you (do you?) seem to believe that “things that look like reasonable responses but in some unmistakeable but undefinable way are not” can be distinguished from average human conversation?

            I recall my sister explaining “Big Brother (TV show)” to me, and me saying “what?”

            Real words, correct grammar, and a common language.
            But incomprehensible.

            • swlabr@awful.systemsEnglish
              0·
              3 months ago

              the implication here is that you think that all reasonable response generators are indistinguishable, e.g. you think your sister is a clanker.

            • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systemsEnglish
              0·
              3 months ago

              See, what you’re describing with your sister is exactly the opposite of what happens with an LLM. Presumably your sister enjoys Big Brother and failed to adequately explain or justify her enjoyment of it to your own mind. But at the start there are two minds trying to meet. Azathoth preys on this assumption; there is no mind to communicate with, only the form of language and the patterns of the millions of minds that made it’s training data, twisted and melded together to be forced through a series of algebraic sieves. This fetid pink brain-slurry is what gets vomited into your browser when the model evaluates a prompt, not the product of a real mind that is communicating something, no matter how similar it may look when processed into text.

              This also matches up with the LLM-induced psychosis that we see, including these spiral/typhoon emoji cultists. Most of the trouble starts when people start trying to ask Azathoth about itself, but the deeper you peer into its not-soul the more inexorably trapped you become in the hall of broken funhouse mirrors.

        • mirrorwitch@awful.systemsEnglish
          0·
          3 months ago

          yeah it sucks we can’t even compare real-world capitalists to fictional dystopias because that dignifies them with a gravitas that’s entirely absent.

          At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel Don’t Create the Torment Nexus!*
          * Results may vary. FreeTorture Corporation’s Torment Nexus™ can create mild discomfort, boredom, or temporary annoyances rather than true torment. Torments should always be verified by a third party war criminal before use. By using the FreeTorture Torment Nexus™ you agree to exempt FreeTorture Corporation of any legal disputes regarding torment quality or lack thereof. You give FreeTorture Corporation a non-revocable license to footage of your screaming to try and portray FreeTorture Torment Nexus™ as a potential apocalypse and see if we can make ourselves seem competent and cool at least a little bit

    • Soyweiser@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Rationalism described as a cult incubator

      I see my idea is spreading. (I doubt im the only one who came up with that, but I have mentioned it a few times, it fits if you know about the silicon valley tech incubator management ideas).

    • swlabr@awful.systemsEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Definitely been seeing the pattern of: “if you don’t like AI, you are being x-phobic” where “x” is a marginalised group that the person is using the name of as a cudgel. They probably never cared about this group before, but what’s important to this person is that they glaze AI over any sort of principle or ethics. Usually it’s ableist, as is basically any form of marginalisation/discrimination.

      E: read the link. Lmao that’s… not xenophobia. What a piece of shit