Personally I think it’s silly as hell. Qualia is obviously a biological component of experience… Not some weird thing that science will never be able to put in to words.
I’ve been listening to a lot of psychology podcasts lately and for some reason people seem obsessed with the idea despite you needing to make the same logical leaps to believe it as any sort of mysticism… Maybe I am just tripping idk
Life is actually the counter to Entropy. Thats where we get the term Negentropy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negentropy
It fits so perfectly well into a Marxist dialectic fractal acid trip theory too… I love it.
It is not the counter to entropy. Life manages to get less entropy in a small volume by dumping magnitudes more in surrounding space.
Lots of process cause local reductions of entropy; it has nothing to do with life. And life massively increases global entropy.
Right I know that life’s increasing levels of complexity and organization are “counter” to entropy
But at the same time, the more complex the organism the greater the energy required to sustain it. The same can be said for the development of industrial civilization. So while I get what you’re saying I don’t think that really solves the problem at all…
Yeah philosophically it feels great but it either completely disrupts the laws of thermodynamics or it doesnt… I am leaning toward doesn’t. Maybe Lifes incredibly resilience is the key to its Negentropy. We will simply come up with a new means of living whenever the shit hits the fan. Thats what Bill Gates wants us to believe anyways.
I 100% guarantee theres some genius Chinese think talk talking about this right now and we will never fucking hear of it. Some dingus on Reddit told me Marxism is dead because Rawlsianism replaced it so I decided to do a deep dive on modern marxist theory and… they be cookin.
I will find this place and I will learn Chinese and I will get a job there and I will contribute to the realization of Sustainable Intergalactic Super Communism.
Every time someone at work compliments me for doing a good job I literally think “yeah but its all for nothing because I am not Chinese”
real sad world we live in. The Haves (Chinese) certainly make us Have Nots (everyone else) look like shit.
Yeah for real. Not gonna dox myself but I work in Science™ in the US and we are getting absolutely dabbed on it’s so pathetic. I guess it’s for the best that Empire is forgetting how to do The Science.
Please, for the love of God, learn what entropy actually is and what the laws of thermodynamics actually say before trying to wax lyrical about them. Learn what the term “closed system” means for a start
I actually wrote an entire masters thesis on Negentropy
Sure you did, I’m sure the person who proudly declared they don’t read arguments from people they disagree with wrote a masters thesis on negentropy without understanding the second law of thermodynamics and thinking that maybe life violates it.
damn he caught me i didnt acutually write an essay on negentropy, but i did fuck them, first.
Hell yeah buddy, you’re 12
Yeah and you’re 34 thinking being 12 sucked. I loved smash bros melee
looping @[email protected] in on this subthread because I think it aligns with her interests based on comments i’ve seen on the bear. maybe im confusing her with another doomposter…
I am, broadly speaking, less interested in philosophy and more interested in science. I totally agree with Lurkmore’s statement that we are chemical soup and that all life has a nonstop craving for resources. I’m a materialist and panpsychism sounds like nonsense to me, I don’t know how one would even demonstrate such a thing.
I’m not familiar with the idea of negentropy, all I can really remember about life and entropy was someone explaining to me that life can temporarily create local order, but overall the system (including life) is still heading towards disorder. To get our local bit of order, maybe 1.1x the amount of disorder is caused to sustain us. Life is messy and especially our industrialized society.
Yes, this is essentially what needs to happen. I think its hypothetically possible for that to happen, we overcome desires all the time. Especially with the consequences being so grave. Plus we’re talking a society that is already seeking equality, most good for the most people etc. I’m imagining a very selfless socialist/communist society being able to come together and degrowth and live sustainably.
If we had overthrown the rich 100 years ago and had global socialism by say the 1970s, yea definitely. I am not optimistic at present that this will materialize in reality.
I’m glad this makes sense to somebody else. I have the privilege of knowing Smart Science People in daily life who I can engage on these topics with to a certain extent, but they are not Marxists so it never feels like our conversations lead to dialectical “progress.” They are very smart but ultimately libs so trying to have these discussions is so utterly unsatisfying.
That is basically my position. It’s not that humans are incapable of solving the polycrisis, it’s that our present material conditions (and I am including a livable biosphere in this) are probabilistically determined. Our species needed to “get lucky” on many dice rolls in order to place itself in a competitive position at this very moment, and we failed basically all of them.
Thank you for responding to my @. I viewed your profile after doing so and was worried I shouldn’t have brought the topic up given your headspace. I know words on the internet mean shitall during the twilight of our species, but I am truly thankful for being able to engage with somebody on this topic.
Every place I see climate news from also has- significantly worse politics then here, I’m glad we agree on the situation.
You’re completely okay. My headspace kinda, is what it is.
I actually quite enjoy it, words online are a good way to spend the twilight of humans. I appreciated talking with you about this too, climate change is one of my most passionate subjects. Tag or DM me anytime :)
For real. The collapse subreddit has lefties every now and then, and it’s one of the few places on the internet to broach these topics, but it’s mostly misanthropy of various flavors. I’m so deep in the doomworld that posts there aren’t even new information to me now so it’s not even worth visiting anymore
Actually yeah you’re right. We may as well relish the futile. I’ll keep you in mind if I see something interesting that might be worth a discussion.
Climate change and all its implications are a pathological obsession of mine, to the point that it has totally ruined my social life 
I only visit every now and again, I often take breaks. Mostly to keep myself from being too depressed about the number of years I might have left and the quality of them. I might want to pick your brain at some point though.
Honestly haven’t brought it up to people irl too much, they would not be convinced anyway.