Where’s the funny?
Hehe basing actual society on media representation of the extremes lol
Actually, now that I think about it, has there even been a piece of media showing a utopia as capitalist? All the genuine utopias I can think of are usually at least socialist leaning. I say genuine cause there’s also a huge number of works about “utopias” where the whole plot is about how the society isn’t actually a utopia.
There has to be one, but i think most sci-fi authors are left-leaning so their utopias and dystopias both reflect that.
I think you’re, uh, pretty super wrong about sci-fi authors being leftists. Maybe the modern ones, but historically they’ve been pretty right wing.
You’ve got a point there… Robert Heinlein’s books were so fashy that Verhoeven decided the only way Starship Troopers could be turned into a film was if it was done as satire.
Both scenarios could actually happen at the same time
Talkies are cringe, both is bad
back to reddit with you
What’s up with this place being too pro socialism.
There is no such thing as being “too pro-socialism.”
That’s the future under post-scarcity, not socialism. They have replicators, which has made manual labor, capitalism, and socialism obsolete. We do not have any such technology and therefore cannot achieve such a thing at this time.
We already live in a “post-scarcity” world… there is absolutely nothing humans could need that we couldn’t grow or produce. All the scarcity you see around you is artificially created and maintained - and that means socialism is far, far from obsolete.
there is absolutely nothing humans could need that we couldn’t grow or produce.
Yes, but much of it is made using human labor. Labor is what’s scarce in real life and not scarce in Star Trek, and a technological Holy Grail is required to bridge that gap.
So no, present-day scarcity is not artificial. Not entirely artificial, at least.
Labor is what’s scarce in real life
No, it isn’t. We have more labor on this planet that we would know what to do with if we stopped repressing it in order to keep a small group of billionaire parasites in the money.
and a technological Holy Grail is required to bridge that gap.
Absolutely not… there is nothing humans would need that we couldn’t produce in spades using already existing methods. The heinous abuse and mismanagement of human resources in our current mode of production does not require techno-fetishizing non-solutions - it requires a social solution. Hence, socialism.
It’s like with famines: globally we produce more than enough food to feed everyone, we just choose not to.
Our problem isn’t the production of goods, but the allocation.
We have more labor on this planet that we would know what to do with if we stopped repressing it in order to keep a small group of billionaire parasites in the money.
We would run out of it very quickly if there wasn’t anything compelling laborers to perform labor. Nobody’s going to grow crops for you out of the goodness of their hearts. That’s hard, miserable, thankless, dangerous work. That’s why capitalism exists in the first place.
The heinous abuse and mismanagement of human resources in our current mode of production does not require techno-fetishizing non-solutions - it requires a social solution. Hence, socialism.
That has already been attempted several times, each attempt ended in catastrophic failure, and that failure itself involved heinous abuse and mismanagement of human resources.
Machines may yet solve this problem for us, but humans definitely won’t, and we’ve got the history to prove it.
We would run out of it very quickly
No. We wouldn’t. The labor would simply be spent on that which people find important.
Nobody’s going to grow crops for you out of the goodness
Says who? PragerU?
That’s why capitalism exists in the first place.
No, Clyde… that’s not it. Maybe don’t extrapolate your politics from Civilization games, okay?
That has already been attempted several times
Yes, it has… and everywhere it was tried it was destroyed by fascists, capitalists and other power-hoarders because they were afraid it might work. For instance, Catalonia in the middle 30s and Ukraine in the early 20s.
Machines may yet solve this problem for us,
No, they won’t.
and we’ve got the history to prove it.
Alt-history doesn’t actually count as real history.
Pretty sure Star Trek is actually full on communism given that they’re a classless and moneyless society.
you are correct. though the path to that kind of communism leads through the socialist stage of development
Right, there has to be a transitional state from society the way it is shaped by capitalism to a different kind of society that’s based on communist economic relations. Incidentally, I thought this was an excellent explanation of the relationship between socialist and communist phases of development https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/3228-lenin-s-three-theoretical-arguments-about-the-dictatorship-of-the-proletariat
