tl;dr :
- Hexchat IRC client app development stopped
- Linux Mint team was building IRC client to replace Hexchat
- The team tried Matrix and liked it
- Linux Mint’s communication channels are moving from IRC to Matrix
- The desktop app will be named Matrix to avoid confusion
I‘m not sure if I like this. I use Matrix for a couple of years now and to be honest the more I use it the more I hate it.
Everything just feels slow, clunky and some basic things are quite complicated to archive and some functionality just does not work.
All that was okay for me in the beginning but it never got better.IRC and XMPP also had their problems but I often wish them back nowadays.
I think Matrix is the future, it just needs better designers and implementation.
They really, really shouldn’t do things differently than discord just to be different.
Looks like you’re saying federation is the future, but Matrix is a bad federation implementation. And that sounds good.
I still think forums are the best way to handle support. Even phpBB is better than any chat. Have a bot alert a chat channel that the project team hangs out for every new topic or something, if that’s a concern.
I still think forums are the best way to handle support. Even phpBB is better than any chat. Have a bot alert a chat channel that the project team hangs out for every new topic or something, if that’s a concern.
Giving the users the choice to have IRC and a forum sounds nice to me. Forums for the longer conversations and be able to look up things with a search engine, and IRC for quick questions and informal chat.
the issue isn’t so much with IRC, XMPP, Matrix, or Discord per se (aside from Discord having its own issues) – it’s that every dev/org/group is trying to use a chatroom as a replacement for support channels, wikis, knowledgebases, FAQs, forums, announcements, mailing lists, etc.
[as the meme states: “I don’t want to join your fucking Discord server just to get basic information that should be on a proper website instead of hidden away in the archives of a fucking chatroom”]
Discord is the Gold Standard for you ? Why ?
It’s the easiest to use.
While this is true IMO, it’s needed to say that the redesigned Discord mobile app is complete shitshow.
It didn’t take over most of its competition’s userbase magically, they have a well designed system despite its flaws.
Taking away being Electron based, the UI/UX of desktop app is really good.
Everything just feels slow, clunky and some basic things are quite complecated to archive
It’s been that way for much longer than a few years unfortunately. I don’t understand how people can tolerate it. Some projects switched to it because it seemed more beginner friendly than IRC, but to me it’s not focussed on making things easy.
My problem with matrix is that you need email address to use it. Compared to the irc, where you could just use whatever name and ask questions straight away. Most distros I used came with an irc client preinstalled and preconfigured to connect to the support channel when launched. In my opinion that is more beginner friendly.
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You son of a … 😫
this message was not encrypted for this device if we’re going to wish XMPP back
We dont really use/experience matrix. Same as we dont really use/experience debian, fedora, etc.
We are experiencing the clients (same as we experience the DE in the second example).
It does not make sense to hate on the protocol for clunky clients, same as it does not make sense to change distros because gnome isnt your thing, except if your OS doesnt handle anything else.
I had this discussion a billion times already. Element is not matrix and every other client is produced by actual people with very little money.
Be the change you want to see and make a client or donate to someone who makes the most promising ones instead of moaning about the good ol days please. Have a good one.
The pathway I see is unfortunately IRC/XMPP→Matrix→Discord
“Forks of the project are welcomed. Nobody can stop the code from living on.”
That’s a tear jerking quote right there. o7
web-based Element Matrix client
And I was hoping there was an alternative to fractal as a nativ app…
KDE’s NeoChat is written in Qt if I’m not mistaken
🫡nice, gotta look Hope it supports E2E encryption
“some aspects of End-to-End Encryption are supported”
Whatever that means 😂
Also Nheko is nice.
I found it to be very buggy, usually had UI rendering issues
And I was hoping they fork fractal such that they can both profit from each other
Even better 😄
They might build one of those later
I was trying to think of what the impactful differences between IRC and Matrix are (it’s been a while).
“While being as open as IRC, Matrix provides a user experience which is similar to Slack or Discord to some extent. It’s modern, it’s persistent, and […] it’s actually less confusing to newcomers than an extremely simple application like Jargonaut.”
Persistancy! It’s funny how that completely slipped my mind. The expectation from a chat room app has changed a lot since I last regularly used IRC and I guess I forgot what it used to be like.
Green Ubuntu go brrrrr
Green Ubuntu is Best Ubuntu
it really is and i been liking green Debian as well.
I’ve been thinking of switching to Green Debian… It doesn’t sound like there’s all that much difference, anything you found missing or was it pretty much same enough?
Same as Debian but with pre-installed firmware, and other stuff. also the desktop GUI gets updates and it has backports enabled by default.
Green Debian didn’t like displaying things on my laptop’s Nvidea chip. On my desktop with an AMD card, Green Debian runs flawlessly. No terminal transparency, though, but that’s not really a problem for me.
Cool that they are using now matrix
I can’t remember exactly when I stopped installing mIRC when I built a new PC, but it’s been a while. Is DALnet still around?
DALnet appears to be alive and kicking. Since you’re maybe out of the loop, big drama happened with Freenode. Right now Libera Chat and OFTC appear to be the big names for IRC for open source software users.
DALnet is an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) network made up of 39 servers, with a stable population of approximately 10,000 users in about 4,000 channels. DALnet is accessible by connecting with an IRC client to an active DALnet server on ports 6660 through 6669, and 7000. SSL users can connect on port 6697 as well. The generic round-robin address is irc.dal.net.
Ah, far out. Thank you for the info. Maybe I’ll load up an IRC client and check them out!
Hmm I hope it will be at least somewhat stable. I never had good experience with Matrix for more than like an hour
Maybe it will attract more development ? 🫣
Why have preinstalled apps though? Hear me out… i am very new to Linux and enjoying it quite much.
But most of the preinstalled programs that came with mint, i have not touched and never will.
Why have preinstalled apps though?
To make it easier for people.
That does not make any sense if you read my comment. This is my point exactly. They are not saving me any time because i won’t use matrix and i wouldn’t have spent time installing it. . They may even be making it harder for me if i chose to uninstall it
You’re not the only user. Other people may benefit even if you personally don’t. Getting software you don’t want is a compromise for getting an easy out the box installation that comes with what you want already pre-installed.
If you want a more personalized approach there’s always forking a distro and customizing it so that it suits your needs (which is how Nobara came into being).
If that was the case they would add a step in the installation giving you the option to have no preinstalled apps and choose between currated apps based on your expected use for this pc.
I dont argue that its a great service. I am slightly opposed on it being a forced option
Mint is aimed at normies. The fewer barriers to entry, the better. If you give users the option for a “clean” install there will be people who select it, not knowing what they’re doing, and then end up with a borderline non-functional computer as far as they’re concerned. To put it another way, they expect it to have stuff pre-installed. Finally, what counts as essentials and what counts as bloat? Text editor? Media player? Photo viewer? Internet browser?
That being said, I understand why you might not like getting extra programs you didn’t ask for. Luckily, they’re very easy to uninstall and forget about.
Agreed! Manjaro, for example, does exactly that - in its Hello menu that is turned on after installation, it offers you to select which of the common apps you’d like to install.
Just check what you need and there you go, bloat-free easy start.
Its a support room app. Xiaomi has forum apps built in for this reason.
Some will use the built in note editor, some the built in music player, some the built in video player, and now some will use matrix
Mint isn’t overly bloated, or even “bloated”, these apps are useful for a decent part of the demographic, and having them preinstalled lowers the friction a new user feels when installing a new OS
Because when interacting with other people to do something together it is more convenient not having to encourage them to install something. Like preinstalled Magic Wormhole for file sharing or something for remote desktop. FTP client is a must. Chat is nice to have.
I use Arch btw.
Im not convinced.
But i guess i never will. Just yesterday i needed an ftp client. I went to the software manager to down had it and realised it was already preinstalled.
It saves me maybe 8 sec?
I wish they went with XMPP. Still cool though.
Do we know when Mint 22 is coming yet other than just “summer '24”?
Would you rather they announce “when it’s ready” instead?
It wasn’t a criticism - I was just curious if anyone had any more info.
Nobody got solid info (probably not the devs themselves), but some facts:
- they’re based on Ubuntu LTS
- they put heavy modifications on top of it
- from their track record, the major releases have been on June & July
Thanks!
I recently switched my main Linux laptop to Fedora and I have to say, it’s probably the most stable and clean distro I’ve ever used.
Happy for you… but isn’t this thread about Mint?
Is that a way to say “by the way I use fedora”? 😀
No, it’s a way to say that Mint has become bloated and not a great experience.
I just switched to Fedora from Mint, and was impressed.
Fedora is not stable but very well tested it seems.
And GNOME (the default, I guess?) Is also just really well tested
I feel Mint doesn’t need a Matrix client, IPTV client etc. pre-installed, but luckily you can easily remove those unlike some other OS’s
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Why not use Beeper?
You can. It just would not be good as preinstalled thing. Operating systems should not preinstall anything tethered to one server in my opinion.
I like beeper, but it forces you to use a beeper.com account, and the mint devs couldn’t make it autojoin the support room
