A US State Department report that accuses the Chinese government of expanding disinformation efforts is “in itself disinformation,” Beijing’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs claimed Saturday.
The ministry shot back after the State Department issued a striking report this week in which it accused the Chinese government of expanding efforts to control information and to disseminate propaganda and disinformation that promotes “digital authoritarianism” in China and around the world.
The US report, issued by the Global Engagement Center on Thursday, alleged that China spends billions of dollars a year on foreign information manipulation and warned that Chinese leader Xi Jinping had “significantly expanded” efforts to “shape the global information environment.”
It also underlined US concerns about China as a main military competitor and key rival in the battle over ideas and global disinformation.
This is exactly what I was looking for.
This is funny. It also reflects in Lemmy. For example, take this tankie comment claiming “zelensky made having peace negotiations with putin ILLEGAL”, based on an article which says “Zelensky’s decree released Tuesday declares that holding negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin has become impossible after his decision to annex four regions of Ukraine.”
Then watch how mods from lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml ban users and delete comments which question their narrative.
Cherry on top: A user from this curated bubble remarks that “Nobody actually has any argument against this”, because of course they are shielded from comments who pointed out the inaccuracy of the claim, and don’t question it themselves.
Compare yourself:
- lemm.ee version: https://lemm.ee/comment/3929526
- lemmygrad.ml version: https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/2389500
Now read that comment in the basement of this thread again:
Understand we American make more lie for pleasure and entertaining. Not chinese lie. China always with great truth.
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Had to open the links up in web version to see the difference. Ngl, it’s something I expected lemmygrad to do. I’m glad to be on lemm.ee. I love the admins and their transparency and how their policies are democratically decided like when we voted to defederate Threads.
I also think there is nothing wrong with stuff like this and it’s what lemmy was made for. If one instance doesn’t like something, they can remove it, other instances may still want to see it, if members don’t like it, they can move or have their own instance but can still interact. It’s the beauty of decentralization.
comments which question their narrative.
But don’t you see that’s NATO propaganda. Want proof? Have a look at who posted it.
to be fair it’s lemmygrad so it’s the worse of qorse, not exactly lemmy in general
What are you talking about? The first reply to that comment has more upvotes and debunks it.
The first reply to that comment has more upvotes and debunks it.
Yes, from our point of view. This is fine. My point is, compare to their point of view.
All comments rectifying the lie got removed. Users from that instance see a whole other story. Only now that weird comment makes sense:
Nobody actually has any argument against this except ad hominems, which is usually fairly telling.
The OP article seems to talk about a similar situation, just in geopolitics, while we play in Lemmy. Two parties with very different narratives. One is heavily filtering and censoring, which allows people living in that bubble to honestly believe what they are being told. Because that’s all they see, their Big Brother takes care.
Sorry, I am unsure how this federation thing works but your explanation made it much clearer.
It’s unclear what you mean with “that comment”, since my comment refers to three distinct comments, and two different views of a comment section, with different replies and upvotes. If you can narrow down your question (preferrably with a link), I will try to answer it.
Where
They are correct though whether you want to accept that or not. Zelensky has rejected peace talks because he is deranged and thinks he can take back Crimea. This user just put that in a weird way saying it’s illegal.
Although he has made opposition parties illegal, and reporting against the war illegal as well. He has arrested a US citizen named Gonzalo Lira for his reporting
This user just put that in a weird way saying it’s illegal.
Exactly, legal/illegal is a well defined term. The president of Ukraine rejecting something does not make it “ILLEGAL”.
Then go to Ukraine and speak out against his conditions for peace talks. You’ll be arrested.
Typically when a country is at war due to being invaded, they don’t take kindly to people pushing the invaders agenda.
Where in Gonzalo Lira’s reporting did he push the Russian’s agenda?
Trying to criticize a leader’s decision that will kill thousands more should be free and openly allowed for their own citizens. Unfortunately it is not.
I saw some coverage from The Daily Beast that suggested Lira was spouting lots of misinformation, some of which were in line with general Russian talking points. Make of that what you will ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well that’s not really convincing but I’ll look into it thanks.
Do the same in Russia about Russian terms and you’ll have the same treatment, if you don’t fall from a window beforehand.
Where did I say Russia was better?
[citation needed]. Which law, which section, which paragraph.
They can be arrested for a variety of made up charges to keep them quiet. There are some examples for you.
Indeed, Russia arrests people for things like saying that Crimea is Ukraine.
…have you actually read the article? Are you aware that it’s talking about Russian suppression of journalism? That Ukraine got them out of Russian prison via prisoner exchanges?
That is your response to a thread starting out with a post pointing out tankies not bothering to read the sources they quote? To quote a source you didn’t read?
One of the most well-known and popular journalists in Ukraine was yesterday arrested by the officers of the Security Service of Ukraine. Unfortunately, the dramatic situation in our country is being used for “cleansing” of opponents, in gross violation of all legal and juridical procedures. Yuriy Tkachev is a journalist from Odessa, Ukraine, editor-in-chief of the online magazine https://timer-odessa.net/. He was very critical of the former and also the current Ukrainian government for its policies afterwards the Maidan, and especially regarding the “Odessa massacre of May 2, 2014” and “Shootings on the Maidan”, whose investigations were stalled, postponed for many years and until today not concluded, among others.
???
not, you’ll not, now shut up
lmao the ammount of stupidity and russia propaganda in that shit lmao, give me at least a source that don’t say that much lies and shit
Then quote and disprove them.
Zelensky has rejected peace talks because he is deranged and thinks he can take back Crimea.
Zelensky had been talking a lot with Russia while Crimea was occupied, while they already occupied parts of Luhansk and Donetsk (by proxy). Even after the 2022 there were talks, you might remember the pictures of delegations sitting around a table in Belarus.
If you had read the article in question (or in fact OP’s comment) you would’ve seen that it said:
Zelensky’s decree released Tuesday declares that holding negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin has become impossible after his decision to annex four regions of Ukraine.
Now, I will grant that yes of course that was a political move. He was known to be a Russia-friendly president, elected (among other things) because people thought Poroshenko was too heavy-handed. Such a declaration simply makes clear to the Ukrainian people that he’s drawing a line in the sand, that his patience with Russia has ended.
And can you fucking blame him Russia just annexed four regions. How much talking do you think, say, Vietnam would do if China annexed four of their provinces or whatever they’re called.
Ukraine has rejected those demands and won’t hold talks with Russia until Moscow’s troops pull back from all occupied territories. - link
Throughout the conflict this has been his demand to return Crimea for peace talks. This was never a realistic option.
If you had read the article in question
Yes I know his current stance, but he has always called for the return of Crimea.
And can you fucking blame him Russia just annexed four regions.
I understand how terrible this situation is for Ukraine as a whole, and I want it to end. The demands Zelensky has made from the beginning has only made certain that the war would continue. What we need is a ceasefire and neither side is making reasonable demands.
So… when I break into your home and eat your cookies, what are you going to do? Tell yourself that you should accept a ceasefire and let me have the couch?
I’m sick and tired of this vulgar pacifism that does nothing but embolden aggressors. No: You should punch me in the face and boot me the fuck out. If you don’t I’ll leave to do the exact same thing to your neighbour once the cookies are gone, and the flour and sugar is gone – because yes I’m first going to make you to make more, doormat.
Ask NATO, they’re the aggressors that provoked this conflict. They expanded around Russia and heightened tensions by putting nuclear missiles in Turkey to provoke the Cuban missile crisis, so you know Russians don’t want nuclear missiles in Ukraine. Same as we wouldn’t want Russian missiles in Mexico.
That’s the worst take yet.
Claiming NATO actions at the height of the cold war were aggression towards the modern Russian state is ridiculous.
nuclear missiles in Turkey to provoke the Cuban missile crisis
Except that was before disarmament? Which the US and USSR (and now Russia and many others) signed on to. Trying to say that 50yo actions taken at the height of the cold war justify Russia’s modern actions is outright horseshit.
Trying to say that 50yo actions taken at the height of the cold war justify Russia’s modern actions is outright horseshit.
Not what I said. I’m saying Russians remember feeling threatened by the combined force of NATO and Ukraine trying to join provoked the invasion.
Why did all those states want to join NATO? Might it have something to do with the continued occupation of Moldova, the invasion of Georgia, and their experience they had while being Russian vassals, being subjects to deportations and worse? Ever talked to an Estonian?
Wanna talk about nukes in Kaliningrad and Belarus? Wanna talk about the Budapest memorandum? Wanna talk about China’s nuclear guarantees to Ukraine and wonder why Russia is only making nuclear threats against NATO, but not Ukraine?
Ask NATO, they’re the aggressors that provoked this conflict. They expanded around Russia
The difference between NATO expansion and Russia’s expansion:
NATO expands by having democracies decide to join. Note for this to happen, the countries in question must want to join. If you insist, you can blame NATO for accepting these applications.
Russia expands by rolling in with tanks, killing people and committing war crimes. Exactly the reason why all those countries want to join NATO, to have some protection from that bully.
But sure, the defensive alliance is the actual aggressor, not the country starting invasions. /s
Russia voted to join and was rejected dummy.
I love me some mental gymnastics just as much as everyone else, but for a minute lets agree for some reason Putin has a reason to be worried about “NATO expansionism”… didnt he e already have the upper hand circa 2014 and Crimea? Was he feeling just as threatened? Somehow even after mobilizing, Europe was still energy dependant, the US was about as friendly with Russia in a long time during the trump presidency, I’ve had the impression that much remained neutral before the full scale invasion aside from trade quarrels, nobody was talking about arming Ukraine in some sort of cold war era missile crisis. Which I would certainly hope the change from 3 day "special operation " into this fucking shitshow should tell you all you need: it is about the land. And if you’re wanting the former Soviet Union coming back to its glory through force, just say it.
You’re very ignorant of the situation.
No u
Nuh uh
I feel like we could all save a lot of money on diplomats and ministers by just getting a bunch of toddlers to shout “no u” at each other until the end of time.
I feel like this would be easier to settle if the report came with specific examples of narratives originating from Chinese troll farms with metadata supporting their general origin.
Shit even pegging it to tankies known to be sympathetic to the CCP would probably be sufficient
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The ministry shot back after the State Department issued a striking report this week in which it accused the Chinese government of expanding efforts to control information and to disseminate propaganda and disinformation that promotes “digital authoritarianism” in China and around the world.
The US report, issued by the Global Engagement Center on Thursday, alleged that China spends billions of dollars a year on foreign information manipulation and warned that Chinese leader Xi Jinping had “significantly expanded” efforts to “shape the global information environment.”
It also underlined US concerns about China as a main military competitor and key rival in the battle over ideas and global disinformation.
“The relevant center of the US State Department which concocted the report is engaged in propaganda and infiltration in the name of ‘global engagement’ – it is a source of disinformation and the command center of ‘perception warfare’,” the ministry said on Saturday.
Referring to wars in Iraq and Syria as well as US reports alleging human rights abuses in China’s Xinjiang as examples, the ministry claimed that the US is “an ‘empire of lies’ through and through.”
“No matter how the US tries to pin the label of ‘disinformation’ on other countries, more and more people in the world have already seen through the US’s ugly attempt to perpetuate its supremacy by weaving lies into ‘emperor’s new clothes’ and smearing others,” the ministry said.
The original article contains 263 words, the summary contains 232 words. Saved 12%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
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US does the same thing, they just use Israel as a proxy.
He jas a point
It is so funny that US does propaganda like this, because there is so much shit happening in and because of countries like China, Russia and North Korea. Why doesn’t US talk about the genocide? Why doesn’t US talk about public executions (oh wait I know the answer to this one), why doesn’t US talk about concentration camps (oh I know this one too), why the duck does US have to have shitty disinformation propaganda like North Korea forcing specific haircuts instead. There is so much shit happening because in these corrupt areas, and lies about haircuts is the thing they want to focus on.
I’ve always found it hilarious when people try to point at a person’s shitty past as evidence to say their own actions are somehow okay or not that bad.
Has the US committed genocide on a national scale? Ask the native Americans who are ALLOWED to stay on broken down, often desolate reservations, and the literal millions of Buffalo slaughtered for the sole purpose of taking away their food supply to starve them out.
But that doesn’t for a second excuse other countries doing similar things. We know how fucked up that is, we’re not the same country we were 150 years ago. We’re not even the same country we were 15 years ago.
I know YOU aren’t saying the US can’t talk about things like that, but it’s often seen “but WHAT ABOUT blah blah blah” and your comment reminded me of it. You’re probably right though, a lot of people in the US don’t like talking about those things, and REALLY don’t like it when you point out their own country has done many of the things we supposedly fight against. Hopefully it’s been a long time since those things happen, but all too often you see it happening in some small way still today.
Everyone fucked up is my motto.
I really believe both can play the same game. Both the western and the east block can do propaganda.
US/ CIA was the… mastermind of many collapses of communist government during the cold war. I’m Chinese Indonesian and we are definitely one of victims of such acts.
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@goldenlocks @MicroWave
Zelensky is clearly not the only one to decide here, this is not russia, so keep your insults for yourself
when do we go to war with eurasia?
This might help someone.
Another case of projection. At least they’re honest about why they are projecting, they’re losing their grip on monopolizing the global stage.
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i might switch to connect
It’s a right of passage.
The US has found a really good dog whistle for “opinions and facts I disagree with.” Everything is disinformation! Some of it is Democrat disinformation (“fake news”), some of it is Republican disinformation (“wrong”), and some of it is foreign disinformation (“makes other country look good and America look bad”). Welcome to the state of modern American journalism, I guess.
For what it’s worth, China doesn’t really need to spend billions of dollars on disinformation abroad because (1) The Great Firewall exists (so foreign disinformation has no domestic impact), (2) China has almost always adopted the “actions speak louder than words” strategy that better aligns with Chinese culture, and (3) China has also taken that view on foreign policy in that it uses the actions of other countries to determine their positions rather than their stated views.
Frankly, a lot of people are applying Western views on Chinese culture without taking a step back and asking themselves WHY there’s such a big gap between what they expect and reality.
disinformation has no domestic impact
Ow, my head.
A significant contributor to the deadliest man-made disaster in the history of mankind was domestic disinformation in China.
Edit: I misread the comment and didn’t see the preceding word ‘foreign’. In hindsight my original comment doesn’t make sense given this context. I don’t agree with OP’s comment though. They seem to rely on the idea that, ‘China is special and unique (unlike you troglodytes)’, as an explanation for how the government behaves in international politics.
I think a different poster explained the CCP’s sophisticated methodology better: “no u”.
They were clearly referring to online foreign disinformation, not domestic disinformation.
Yeah, my bad. It’s clear I got stuck on that one point.
Precisely. Everyone has domestic disinformation, but it’s a domestic issue.
That has no relation to the issue of foreign disinformation. Whataboutism, much?
Hideo Kojima was right.
He predicted all of this in MGS2.
“Nobodies ever invalidated, but nobody is ever right either.” Referring to how you can pick and choose what you want to believe and find no shortage of information on the internet to support or debunk it.
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