Although personally in favor of Palestinian independence and critical of war crimes committed by Israel in its siege of Gaza, I attempted to explain in a back-and-forth discussion with a user (only afterwards learning was one of the community’s two moderators) why protest voting in the 2024 election to “punish” the democrats in favor of the republicans harmed the ultimate interest of reigning in Israeli violence in Palestine.
To further emphasize the damage caused by such a protest vote, I argued that not only is Palestine worse off with Trump elected instead of Harris, but as are a myriad of other social issues. The other user disagreed, arguing that Trump’s return to office facilitated the ceasefire, rather than my argument that Netanyahu deliberately delayed it to help Trump get elected.
After my fourth reply post in a reply chain that stemmed from my initial reply to the moderator’s comment, I was banned from !palestine@lemm.ee. Having at no point advocated in favor of the violence perpetuated by Israel in Gaza, I think the ban was unjustified, and demonstrates a bad precedent for maintaining echo chambers of moderator opinions, rather than communities that foster discussion.
You’re presenting a selective history.
I suspect that is why you were banned. Nothing about Trump. People like to do this, present one complimentary fact about their case and pretend that innocent thing was the whole reason for the response, instead of the less complimentary things they also did.
You are not by any means wrong in that statement. Hamas has no right to kill, rape, and kidnap a bunch of young Israeli civilians who have nothing to do with the occupation except having happened to be born in a country whose government is committing atrocities, and no amount of war crimes by the IDF would give them that right. However, I will have to say that trying to say that true fact in a Palestine community specifically, is probably a tactical error, and will lead to no good outcome and often to a ban.
PTB, I guess, technically, but asking people whose family members are being killed to sit still while you to tell them their side is also the bad guys is quite a lot to ask.
If it were me, I would focus more specifically on the fact that letting Trump get elected has now absolutely doomed everyone in Gaza and quite a lot of people in the West Bank. With Biden it was already a genocide. Under Trump, it’s now going to be an accelerated genocide, with much grander scope and ambition.
Yup. Trump just started pressuring Jordan and Egypt to take more Palestinian “refugees”. I never saw the Democrats advocating for forced deportations despite all their other enablement.
Israel had intel of the October 7 attack at least 3 days before it from Egypt and internal sources and allowed it to happen.
Fuck Israel. A genocidal colonial settler state deserves the violence it receives.
You’ve had awful takes on this, constantly defending Israel’s genocidal actions, and I’m sick of reading them. Armed resistance is warranted in the face of genocide. Blocking your dumbass.
Correct. They’ve also been arranging for funding for Hamas, going to bat for them against their domestic opponents, because having a more violent organization representing Palestine gives them excuses for what they wanted to do anyway. They’ve been pretty explicit about this. They love having Hamas around killing Israelis, because it makes it look a lot more justified when they feel like killing Palestinians, which is always.
Ah yes, who could forget all the times I defended Israel’s genocidal actions. Which ones though? Which messages defending Israel’s actions were your favorites?
Edit: Typo
Do you have source(s) on this? Would be interested in learning more.
It’s hard to find this shit on my phone because they’re intentionally memory holing stuff but here’s the times of Israel article about egypts warning, which was actually 10 days in advance.
https://archive.is/2025.01.06-061316/https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/
I’ll see if I can find the article about internal reports being ignored but that one’s gonna be harder to find because I can’t remember which paper it was, might of been haaretz.
Edit: that was easier than I thought it would be. Considering all the hits to my head I can’t believe I remembered the paper right!
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-18/ty-article/report-new-evidence-reveals-idf-had-detailed-prior-knowledge-of-hamas-plan-to-raid-israel/00000190-2afb-d2de-af9e-6ffbdf700000
This was Israel’s 9/11. Intentional. Netanyahu needed this genocide to stay in power. As a Jew I fucking hate my kind. Zionazis disgust me. An insult to the memory of all our ancestors who died in the Holocaust.
Somebody else posted the source, but to go further, Mossad is supposedly the best spy agency in the world, even according to quite a few Americans in the intelligence community. Do you think it’s likely they didn’t know the attack was coming when Hamas was posting their practice runs for assaulting the wall dividing Gaza from occupied Palestine to social media?
If that was indeed the reason, then that only serves to support the notion that general disagreement, rather than just extremism, is what is being banned from that community. They have every right to ban advocates of genocide for extremism, but in no way do I think that supporting Palestine without supporting Hamas is a position worthy of a ban.
Well… you might have a point. Supporting Palestine without supporting Hamas isn’t precisely what you said, though. You said “terrorism” from the Palestinian side. I think without carefully qualifying that to mean that you’re only talking about events like October 7th, it’s easy for someone to assume you’re using the Israeli definition, where any type of resistance at all is “terrorism.”
Like I say, I agree with you on this. In any other community I think it would be a clear-cut PTB case of censorship. I’m just saying that when dead family members are involved you have to be extremely careful what you present and how, because it’s going to be the easiest thing in the world for people to get heated at you for it.
Consider me uneducated.
I’ve always thought “one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter” is worth considering.
Oct 7th is hard to parse as a justified retaliation. But what does a justified attack even look like?
Is Palestine’s only moral choice to stand their ground?
It’s just a shitty situation. They don’t have the power to be able to save themselves. And no one from the outside is coming to help them, while they’re dying one by one, families and soldiers, mothers and kids.
Killing, raping, and kidnapping a bunch of people at a music festival is never going to make you a freedom fighter. Not least of which because Israel is going to be ecstatic that you did it, and milk it as far as they can to get away with what they wanted to do anyway, and then hope you do it again so they can “retaliate” and keep cycling the machine. But I can’t really answer your question about what I think they should do. I think someone should come from outside, and help them. There’s a whole damn world that has that option.