Hamas has spent years stockpiling desperately needed fuel, food and medicine, as well as ammo and weapons, in the miles of tunnels it has carved out under Gaza.
When you blockade supplies and infrastructure from an entire region of people, most of whom have done nothing wrong, then yes, food shortages are your fault.
Assuming that it’s an honest question and not just bait - at this point I would say indoctrination.
Hamas is in power in Gaza for more than 20 years.
That means that every person in Gaza under the age of 25 went to schools run by Hamas, only read books that were written or approved by Hamas, only saw television shows and movies that were made or approved by Hamas etc.
Since more than 50% of the people in Gaza are under 25, and from those that are over 25 about 50% voted for Hamas, I reckon that the current situation is that most people there only know Hamas and its ideology.
It was bait. The best organized groups in oppressed areas are extremists. We saw that when Hosni Mubarak got tossed in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood was instantly elected, because they were the most organized. Same goes for Hamas. Who was a serious oppoment to the only group capable of getting anthing actually done in Gaza? Israeli intelligence must have known they were going to get elected.
Also Hamas won the elections by a small margin, just a few percentages more than the PLO at the time. It’s not like everyone in Gaza rallied behind them (at least then).
The reason that there were no elections after that is that once they won, they Putin’ed the opposition and threw all the PLO party members from the building rooftop.
The food, water, energy, and medical embargo of the Gazan people are all publicly acknowledged by the Israel Government. So yes… those things are their fault. They proudly claim responsibility.
While it is true Hamas is the governing body of Gaza, its irrelevant. Israel controls all inputs and outputs of Gaza, nothing gets in or out without IDF permission.
Gaza can’t accept humanitarian aid from the UN, the IDF is preventing it.
Gaza can’t trade with other countries for food, the IDF is preventing it.
Gaza can’t released civilians to leave the war zone…
If your running a embargoed prison camp, and you don’t let anyone leave, and you don’t let any food or water in… that makes you responsible. If you release press statements proudly stating your cutting off all food water energy and medicine from the prison camp, it simply removes all doubt.
Israel controls the Palestine territories, if they don’t want the prisoners to roam freely in the rest of Israel they could open another prison and let people move to this peaceful prison to avoid the fighting.
Not entirely accurate - the IDF has already allowed more than 70 trucks of humanitarian aid to go through, but this article is saying something else - it says that there is enough food, water, medical supply and resources inside the prison camp.
I’m not sure where the 500 trucks number comes from, but so far there are no reports about people in Gaza dying from dehydration or starvation.
I’m not disagreeing that it’s tragic and that there are many innocent people, from both sides, that are getting caught in the crossfire.
I do think that it’s important to reflect the reality, that the situation there is more complex than “Israel bad Palestinian good”
Innocent people be them Palestinian, Israel, Jordanian, etc don’t deserve to be bombed, starved, denied water, and medical care to make a point about which belligerent is worse.
You’re going to have people that will never see any merit to the other sides position no matter what. You want to know the flat objective truth? Both parties here fucking suck. Both parties are committing war crimes and atrocities. Every retaliation by either side is vehemently defended as justified because of a prior retaliation which was in turn defended because of the retaliation before it. Over and over again.
Global politics being what it is only ensures that no matter what we are going to ride this roller coaster into oblivion and a lot of people are going to have to die for no justifiable reason. Each side is pushing hard to justify their actions and to be presented as the victim. Both sides have decades of experience working the PR front. In 15 years we will be discussing the latest violence in the region.
Pessimistic perhaps, but I’d just say it’s realistic.
It’s… complicated. There is a back and forth through out history.
I’d say the British are the most responsible for the current situation, but it really doesn’t matter. People need to just be able to live, and nobody should have the right to claim land for a religion to the exclusion of anyone else.
This land is for religion X and nobody else… these people are wrong, and only create violence. (yes, that includes most of our current participants in today’s war).
The thing is the morality of the issue is not that complicated.
It’s as complicated as the genocide of native americans and their expulsion into “reservations” where they still lack the same access to infrastructure, healthcare, education as the rest of the country today.
As complicated as apartheid south africa or the irish republicans.
The history is complicated in the sense that it is war with many atrocities and injustices. But the root of the issue, the cause for all these atrocities that the colonialists suffer in retaliation is colonialism.
Sure, there was a wronged party, and many students will get their PhDs in analyzing guilt and documenting atrocities.
The USA is still in no hurry to give back land to the Native Americans. They are as sorry as all heck… but the practical reality is they want to continue to exist, and are not willing to give up anything strategic for historical purposes.
The key to life is, the past is informative, but not important, the future is what is important. Living in peace but wronged is better then dying right in war.
The problem is that you’re Americanising this conflict.
There are Israeli Arabs, Druze and Bedouin that lived in the region for centuries and are now happy to identify as Israeli (look online for Arab Israelis for Israel. Get out of the echo chambers). There are Jewish families that have been there since the Roman empire.
On the flip side there are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that migrated to the region in the 1930’s and 40’s, their family names today still indicate their family origins in Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq etc.
If you really want to dive down the historical rabbit hole of the region we’ll be here for hours, but trying to frame this conflict as a white colonisers vs indigenous people is historically and factually incorrect.
That really depends on how far back in history you want to go. We can even start with Muhammad and the Jewish tribes massacres (Banu Qurayza for example).
But honestly, I don’t think that that’s a productive approach.
This is a live, dynamic and constantly changing conflict. The things that defined it 100 or even 50 years ago are no longer relevant.
The israeli people living there today have no ancestry back to mohammedan times. They’re 99% converts. But really, you wanted to go back to the start. As if you are going to find some historical excuse that could justify the use of white phosphorus, bombing of hospitals, the bombing of roads that the population were told to take to move south by the very same army doing the bombardment. Some point in time where you can point to and claim “See, this is why the israeli’s are justified in starving and bombing and terrorizing these people in an open-air prison”.
So, regardless of what happens and what everyone is doing or not doing, it’s always Israel’s fault?
When you blockade supplies and infrastructure from an entire region of people, most of whom have done nothing wrong, then yes, food shortages are your fault.
You seem to forget that Hamas is the acting government of Gaza.
So the people of Gaza should just elect a new government. Why do you suppose they don’t?
Assuming that it’s an honest question and not just bait - at this point I would say indoctrination.
Hamas is in power in Gaza for more than 20 years.
That means that every person in Gaza under the age of 25 went to schools run by Hamas, only read books that were written or approved by Hamas, only saw television shows and movies that were made or approved by Hamas etc.
Since more than 50% of the people in Gaza are under 25, and from those that are over 25 about 50% voted for Hamas, I reckon that the current situation is that most people there only know Hamas and its ideology.
It was bait. The best organized groups in oppressed areas are extremists. We saw that when Hosni Mubarak got tossed in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood was instantly elected, because they were the most organized. Same goes for Hamas. Who was a serious oppoment to the only group capable of getting anthing actually done in Gaza? Israeli intelligence must have known they were going to get elected.
How many elections have happened since?
Are you saying that the Egyptians are oppressed?
Also Hamas won the elections by a small margin, just a few percentages more than the PLO at the time. It’s not like everyone in Gaza rallied behind them (at least then).
The reason that there were no elections after that is that once they won, they Putin’ed the opposition and threw all the PLO party members from the building rooftop.
Getting kind of lazy with your talking points, you are just copying and pasting the same response to different people.
Well, you essentially said the same thing…
The food, water, energy, and medical embargo of the Gazan people are all publicly acknowledged by the Israel Government. So yes… those things are their fault. They proudly claim responsibility.
You seem to forget that Hamas is the acting government of Gaza.
While it is true Hamas is the governing body of Gaza, its irrelevant. Israel controls all inputs and outputs of Gaza, nothing gets in or out without IDF permission.
Gaza can’t accept humanitarian aid from the UN, the IDF is preventing it.
Gaza can’t trade with other countries for food, the IDF is preventing it.
Gaza can’t released civilians to leave the war zone…
If your running a embargoed prison camp, and you don’t let anyone leave, and you don’t let any food or water in… that makes you responsible. If you release press statements proudly stating your cutting off all food water energy and medicine from the prison camp, it simply removes all doubt.
Gaza shares a border with Egypt, a country not under IDF control. Egypt doesn’t allow civilians from Gaza intro its territory. So why should Israel?
I think you already asked me about Egypt controlling the crossing else where, i’m just going to link to my response
https://hackertalks.com/comment/1544238
Israel controls the Palestine territories, if they don’t want the prisoners to roam freely in the rest of Israel they could open another prison and let people move to this peaceful prison to avoid the fighting.
Hamas crontrols Gaza Strip. This is how Hamas launched a deadly attack into Israel.
Israel population is around 9 million and has a shortage of housing and land. It cannot host a million or two people from Gaza.
Not entirely accurate - the IDF has already allowed more than 70 trucks of humanitarian aid to go through, but this article is saying something else - it says that there is enough food, water, medical supply and resources inside the prison camp.
It’s just that its leaders refuse to share it.
The daily needs of the Gazan people are 500 trucks, and that was before the war started, if anything those needs are larger now.
So yes, 70 trucks have been allowed through in 3 weeks? of the war.
70/10,500 < 1% of need
It’s insufficient, and the the starving, people are still starving.
I’m not sure where the 500 trucks number comes from, but so far there are no reports about people in Gaza dying from dehydration or starvation.
I’m not disagreeing that it’s tragic and that there are many innocent people, from both sides, that are getting caught in the crossfire. I do think that it’s important to reflect the reality, that the situation there is more complex than “Israel bad Palestinian good”
Innocent people be them Palestinian, Israel, Jordanian, etc don’t deserve to be bombed, starved, denied water, and medical care to make a point about which belligerent is worse.
True.
Keep in mind that throughout this war Hamas has continued to fire rockets at Israel - more than 7,000 so far, all targeting civilian population.
I don’t think Israel has any choice here.
How would you react?
You’re going to have people that will never see any merit to the other sides position no matter what. You want to know the flat objective truth? Both parties here fucking suck. Both parties are committing war crimes and atrocities. Every retaliation by either side is vehemently defended as justified because of a prior retaliation which was in turn defended because of the retaliation before it. Over and over again.
Global politics being what it is only ensures that no matter what we are going to ride this roller coaster into oblivion and a lot of people are going to have to die for no justifiable reason. Each side is pushing hard to justify their actions and to be presented as the victim. Both sides have decades of experience working the PR front. In 15 years we will be discussing the latest violence in the region.
Pessimistic perhaps, but I’d just say it’s realistic.
Only when it is. Like now.
You seem to forget how this war started.
Every palestinian remembers the Nakba.
Let me guess, you’re a “from the river to the sea” supporter
Am I wrong? Is the Nakba not how it started?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4upvoxP9-kg
It’s… complicated. There is a back and forth through out history.
I’d say the British are the most responsible for the current situation, but it really doesn’t matter. People need to just be able to live, and nobody should have the right to claim land for a religion to the exclusion of anyone else.
This land is for religion X and nobody else… these people are wrong, and only create violence. (yes, that includes most of our current participants in today’s war).
The thing is the morality of the issue is not that complicated.
It’s as complicated as the genocide of native americans and their expulsion into “reservations” where they still lack the same access to infrastructure, healthcare, education as the rest of the country today.
As complicated as apartheid south africa or the irish republicans.
The history is complicated in the sense that it is war with many atrocities and injustices. But the root of the issue, the cause for all these atrocities that the colonialists suffer in retaliation is colonialism.
Sure, there was a wronged party, and many students will get their PhDs in analyzing guilt and documenting atrocities.
The USA is still in no hurry to give back land to the Native Americans. They are as sorry as all heck… but the practical reality is they want to continue to exist, and are not willing to give up anything strategic for historical purposes.
The key to life is, the past is informative, but not important, the future is what is important. Living in peace but wronged is better then dying right in war.
The problem is that you’re Americanising this conflict.
There are Israeli Arabs, Druze and Bedouin that lived in the region for centuries and are now happy to identify as Israeli (look online for Arab Israelis for Israel. Get out of the echo chambers). There are Jewish families that have been there since the Roman empire.
On the flip side there are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that migrated to the region in the 1930’s and 40’s, their family names today still indicate their family origins in Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq etc.
If you really want to dive down the historical rabbit hole of the region we’ll be here for hours, but trying to frame this conflict as a white colonisers vs indigenous people is historically and factually incorrect.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=4upvoxP9-kg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
That really depends on how far back in history you want to go. We can even start with Muhammad and the Jewish tribes massacres (Banu Qurayza for example).
But honestly, I don’t think that that’s a productive approach. This is a live, dynamic and constantly changing conflict. The things that defined it 100 or even 50 years ago are no longer relevant.
The israeli people living there today have no ancestry back to mohammedan times. They’re 99% converts. But really, you wanted to go back to the start. As if you are going to find some historical excuse that could justify the use of white phosphorus, bombing of hospitals, the bombing of roads that the population were told to take to move south by the very same army doing the bombardment. Some point in time where you can point to and claim “See, this is why the israeli’s are justified in starving and bombing and terrorizing these people in an open-air prison”.
69ish% of modern Israeli jews are natives to the region. The group labeled “zionists” or “colonizers” describes about 30%.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world about as many or more than the Nakbah got expelled.
I don’t understand this claim. Can you explain?
You’re diverting, arguing with a straw man and pushing propaganda. Everything you said can be disproved by a quick Google search.
I remember it started when Israel begun its slow genocide.
No, just the times they have broken international law.
Edit: Oh no poor Israel being constantly accused of breaking international law after constantly breaking it ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ