I know data privacy is important and I know that big corporations like Meta became powerful enough to even manipulate elections using our data.

But, when I talk to people in general, most seem to not worry because they “have nothing to hide”, and most are only worried about their passwords, banking apps and not much else.

So, why should people worry about data privacy even if they have “nothing to hide”?

  • GodOfThunder@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Edward Snowden, a former National Security Agency contractor and government whistleblower, has been credited with the quote “Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say”. Snowden has argued that privacy is a fundamental right and that without it, individuals cannot have anything for themselves. The “nothing to hide” argument has been used to defend the collection and use of government data beyond surveillance and disclosure, but critics argue that it is inherently paradoxical and that what is hidden is not necessarily relevant. Snowden has also stated that the burden of justification falls on those seeking to infringe upon human rights, and that nobody needs to justify why they “need” a right.

  • sebi@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Edward Snowden remarked:

    Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

    There is a wikipedia article regarding this argument

    • Jocho@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      This is a nice quote, however it misses the goal of the original post.

      For example, I fall into the group of people that don’t care about their digital privacy, but I fully support anyone who decides to go invisible on the internet.

  • anaximander@feddit.uk
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    1 year ago

    One thing I often see is people not understanding the difference between secrecy and privacy. They ask why it matters if you’re not doing anything wrong. A UK government minister actually said “if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear”, and then backpedaled when someone pointed out they were quoting Joseph Goebbels. The analogy I’ve seen is simple: I’m sure you don’t do anything illegal in the shower, but I’m also pretty sure most people would be uncomfortable with a law that required you to have a police officer standing in you bathroom with a video camera to record you showering, just in case.

    The other thing is the assumption that any information about you that the government actually has about you will only be used against you if you commit a crime, in which case you’ll deserve it - if you’re not a bad person then it’s fine. This is a double fallacy.

    First, we’ve seen that information can be used to do all sorts of things regardless of wrongdoing - if someone knows enough about you, they can use it to manipulate you. I don’t mean blackmail or whatever, although that’s an option. I mean that with a clear enough picture of your preferences and biases and habits, someone can tailor their actions and information to your psychology and make you think whatever they want you to agree with.

    Second, it assumes that you won’t ever commit a crime because crimes are bad things and you’re not a bad person. This overlooks the possibility of you being mistakenly accused while innocent, but more importantly it overlooks the possibility that the government will change into something that holds different moral values to yours. Even in the modern world we’ve seen places outlaw abortions, or criminalise homosexuality, or pass laws on what religions you’re allowed to follow. If that happens in your country and you find yourself on the wrong side of whatever arbitrary line they’ve now drawn, you may regret giving them so much information about you - information that lets them identify you, prove that you broke their new rules, and ruin your life in so many ways.

    The default principal of any exchange with governments, businesses, or any entity taking your information should be to give as much information as is required for them to perform the operation you’re requesting of them, and no more - and wherever possible to only engage with those entities that you trust to have that information; a trust that they earn by a verified and unbroken track record of ethical and trustworthy behaviour.

  • fernandu00@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    I use a monetary argument… If my data can become revenue to the company then I must have a part of this revenue …if they are not paying me for my property (my data) then I should keep my data from them

    • Overzeetop@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Additionally, and more deleterious, if a company knows you’re looking to take a vacation, or to buy new shoes, they can increase the price that is served to you across all of your internet searches. This is the counter to the privacy argument which separates automated/computer knowledge vs personal knowledge. It’s one thing for someone to be reading all of my Gmail, which is creepy and invasive, vs Alphabet scanning my email and building a consumer profile on me so that all of my searches are tagged and referenced to extract maximum value from my online purchases, which isn’t creepy or invasive (imho) but may materially affect my quality of live which is bad in a totally different way.

  • lazylion_ca@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    I may have nothing to hide, but that doesn’t mean I want it on public display either.

  • Little_mouse@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    “But, when I talk to people in general, most seem to not worry because they “have nothing to hide”, and most are only worried about their passwords, banking apps and not much else.”

    Sounds like they have passwords and banking apps to hide, You should demand their bank account and credit card details to verify that they have made no illicit actions.

    If they point out that they have no reason to trust you with that information, that’s when you point out that police, government, or corporate groups are made out of people just like yourself. They might have some codes of conduct, or a vetting process, but it just takes one person malicious or careless enough for you to be severely impacted.

    • redditcuntsz@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yeah cause corporations are going to steal money off my card. I’d have zero issues sharing that data if their water a reason… I regularrly share steam/gamepass password. You people are insane with broken logic.

  • Altruistic_Flower@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I like to say something along the lines of this “Why do you close the door when you use the restroom? You don’t have anything to hide right? It’s only natural what you’re doing in there. It’s because you want privacy and the same goes for your data online.”

  • Melllvar@startrek.website
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    1 year ago

    Cite historical examples of seemingly innocuous and public information falling into the wrong hands.

    e.g. The Nazis used demographic records (marriages, births, christenings, etc.) in conquered lands to ID Jews and other “undesirables”.

    • cynetri (he/any)@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      And (if they’re American) when they go “well, MY government wouldn’t do that!” counter with how Meta has already, numerous times, gotten people arrested for talking about getting abortions on Facebook

  • parachaye@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Saying “I don’t need privacy because I’ve got nothing to hide” is like saying “I don’t need free speech because I’ve got nothing to say”.

    • glassware@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yet here you are, posting on a website that doesn’t allow absolute free speech.

  • cuerdo@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Ask them how much they make or their medical record.

    Tell them you will pay google several cents for that info.

  • DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 year ago

    I feel like most replies here are missing the point.

    The entire premise of the statement is that privacy is about defending your dirty secrets. When people say “nothing to hide” they’re really saying “I’m not going to post about anything I want to hide”, but that still misses the point.

    For me it’s the subtle principles of advertising. I don’t want to be advertised to, at all. I certainly don’t want some blog to know what adverts I’m likely to engage with, because that is simply none of their business.

    That’s it. If that doesn’t bother some people, that’s entirely fine. I’m a bit weird, and the whole idea of being tracked to figure out what things I might want to buy makes me very grumpy.

    • KreekyBonez@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      I hate ads, with a burning passion, but when I get stuck with one that’s wildly irrelevant to my interests, I know that I’m doing something right. Feels good to be a blank spot on the algorithm.

    • deepdive@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You’re not weird ! Quite the contrary, we are on the right path to fight those greedy corporation !! To bad we’re the minority ://!

    • tinho@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I am doing a paper on this. Privacy as hiding something shameful is a dated concept, like, before villages were a thing. I haven’t time to develop, but privacy was always a privilege of the rich. Back when people were in villages and technology was word of mouth, rich from the time being were in their castles. Knowing what is on peoples mind is a old form of control, while having the right of privacy is freedom. I am a grad student and I have to develop more on the subject, but it’s not about hiding your porn watchlist, lol. It’s about having control of your own decisions. If you understand how someone thinks, changing and satisfying (or pretending to) is actually pretty easy.

      If anyone like Futurama, watch the “Killer App” episode

  • Camzing@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Do you have curtains in your house? Can I look at your income tax records and all purchases made on your visa and bank card?

    • Ondergetekende@feddit.nl
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      1 year ago

      In the 1930s, the Netherlands kept detailed records of ethnicity for every citizen. No one thought this was unnecessary, as ethnicity wasn’t something that could ever be used against you.

      That line of thought ended when the Germans took over in may 1940. Unfortunately those records still existed, and aided the most efficient genocide in human history. Without those records, many jews, sinti and Roma would’ve been able to deny their ancestry and evade being murdered.

      Privacy from government and corporations will one day save lives.

  • peto (he/him)@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Realistically there isn’t one. People dropping that argument are not interested in a dialectic.

    It ultimately doesn’t matter if you have nothing to hide. Some people do and have good, ethical, reason to. Universal privacy is the only way to ensure necessary privacy.