linky

(according to comments of unknown veracity, after 2017)

  • deforestgump [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    19 hours ago

    This is the sound of the “liberal-dissident” class, so insulated, so smug, that it cannot see the demon sitting right across the table from it, so long as the demon can talk about linguistics.

    Look at what he praises! He says Epstein gave him a “most valuable experience”. Valuable for what? For learning about the “intricacies of the global financial system”. He doesn’t ask how Epstein got this “intimate knowledge”. He doesn’t ask who this financial system crushes. No, he’s just fascinated by the “arcane world of finance”. It’s an academic puzzle to him!

    Epstein isn’t just a “friend”; he is a facilitator. He is the social secretary for the ruling class. Chomsky wants to talk about the Oslo agreements? Epstein picks up the phone and gets the Norwegian diplomat who ran them. He wants to meet a former Israeli Prime Minister, a man whose record he’s “studied”? Epstein arranges the meeting.

    And they all sit around and have a “very fruitful discussion”.

    Chomsky is flattered by the attention. He’s impressed by the “limitless curiosity” and “penetrating insights” of the man. He is so dazzled by the “provocative ideas” that he completely misses the material reality of the man’s actions.

    It’s not that he didn’t know. It’s that, in the end, it didn’t matter to him. The “intellectual stimulation” was worth the price of admission. It’s a perfect, grotesque apologia for class power.

    • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      18 hours ago

      Within the framework of Chomsky’s earlier anarchist leanings it makes sense that he would consider this access fruitful, because he would consider it useful to his writing and he considers his writing to be revolutionary activity.

      I say earlier because I’ve questioned whether he still considers himself that since he started working with Vijay Prashad. Perhaps however Prashad is just another intellectual stimulating person to him though that scratches the itch of deep discussions. Prashad however is a far more revolutionary influence than a literal Mossad agent.

      • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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        15 hours ago

        he would consider it useful to his writing and he considers his writing to be revolutionary activity

        It can be, just not the way he does it (lol). You have to actually write about real things, propose real solutions, and engage with real (revolutionary) movements which really act on those ideas. It’s not revolutionary to write when your writing mainly opposes real revolutionary movements and incites others to oppose them as well.

        I’ve questioned whether he still considers himself that

        Oh my god, he’s still alive. I thought he died recently?

  • oscardejarjayes [comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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    15 hours ago

    Gotta separate the art from the artist I guess, all his linguistic contributions and books like Manufacturing Consent are good and likely created long before he started consorting with Epstein. I’ve probably read more of his linguistics stuff than his political, he made a lot of genuinely important contributions to the field, and he’s no Parenti or Marx or even Finkelstein.

  • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.ml
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    20 hours ago

    I’ve always had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around this. Did he really enjoy having intellectual discussions with him? Or is it just hogwash trying to hide how Epstein helped him get funding through his connections?

  • AernaLingus [any]@hexbear.net
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    20 hours ago

    https://www.plainsite.org/documents/g789uxn/house-oversight-committee-epstein-document-houseoversight22405/

    Full text

    To whom it may concern:

    I met Jeffrey Epstein half a dozen years ago. We have been in regular contact since, with many long and often in-depth discussions about a very wide range of topics, including our own specialties and professional work, but a host of others where we have shared interests. It has been a most valuable experience for me.

    In the area of his own direct engagements, I have learned a great deal from him about the intricacies of the global financial system, about complex technical issues that arise in the often arcane world of finance, and about specific cases in which I have a particular interest, such as the financial situation in Saudi Arabia and current economic planning and prospects there. Jeffrey invariably turns out to be a highly reliable source, with intimate knowledge and perceptive analysis, commonly going well beyond what I can find in the business press and professional journals.

    Turning to my own special interests in linguistics, cognitive science, and philosophy of language and mind, Jeffrey constantly raises searching questions and puts forth provocative ideas, which have repeatedly led me to rethink crucial issues.

    We have also had (for me) very rewarding discussions on many other topics, for example the prospects for Artificial Intelligence, deep learning, multi-layered neural nets, automation and robotics, singularity, and related matters, exploring the claims and predictions and looking closely at the results that have been achieved, their intellectual contributions and social import. We have also discussed many other issues, ranging from intellectual history, to world affairs and contemporary geopolitics, to foundations of mathematics, to such matters as recent discoveries about communication in the plant world. He has also tried, so far with limited success, to carry forward my wife Valeria’s efforts to introduce me to the world of jazz and its wonders. Whatever comes up, Jeffrey not only has a lively interest but also unconventional and challenging ideas and thoughtful suggestions.

    Given the range and depth of his concerns, I suppose I should not have been surprised to discover that Jeffrey has repeatedly been able to arrange, sometimes on the spot, very productive meetings with leading figures in the sciences and mathematics, and global politics, people whose work and activities I had looked into though I had never expected to meet them. Once, when we were discussing the Oslo agreements, Jeffrey picked up the phone and called the Norwegian diplomat who supervised them, leading to a lively interchange. On another occasion, Jeffrey arranged a meeting with former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, whose record I had studied carefully and written about. We have our disagreements, but had a very fruitful discussion about a number of controversial matters, including one that was of particular interest to me: the Taba negotiations of January 2001, in the framework or President Clinton’s “parameters,” events that remain obscure and controversial because the diplomatic record is still mostly secret. Barak’s discussion of the background was illuminating, also surprising in some ways. In very different areas, much the same was true in meetings Jeffrey arranged with evolutionary biologists, neuroscientists, mathematicians and computer scientists, several of them engaged in exciting work at the limits of understanding in their fields, sometimes with perspectives quite different from mine. More lively interchanges, in which Jeffrey was once again an active participant, often an effective gadfly.

    The impact of Jeffrey’s limitless curiosity, extensive knowledge, penetrating insights, and thoughtful appraisals is only heightened by his easy informality, without a trace of pretentiousness. He quickly became a highly valued friend and regular source of intellectual exchange and stimulation.

    Noam Chomsky
    Institute Professor (emeritus), MIT; Laureate Professor, U. of Arizona

    • thefunkycomitatus [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      12 hours ago

      We have also had (for me) very rewarding discussions on many other topics, for example the prospects for Artificial Intelligence, deep learning, multi-layered neural nets, automation and robotics, singularity, and related matters, exploring the claims and predictions and looking closely at the results that have been achieved, their intellectual contributions and social import. We have also discussed many other issues, ranging from intellectual history, to world affairs and contemporary geopolitics, to foundations of mathematics, to such matters as recent discoveries about communication in the plant world. He has also tried, so far with limited success, to carry forward my wife Valeria’s efforts to introduce me to the world of jazz and its wonders. Whatever comes up, Jeffrey not only has a lively interest but also unconventional and challenging ideas and thoughtful suggestions.

      These people elevate their own banal conversations to the heights of philosophical inquiry. They get together over a $400 dinner and say the exact same shit anyone of us says about AI. Well, minus the giddiness of how we can profit from it through our investor friends. The conversation you have with a friend while smoking a blunt after watching a science documentary is just as informed and insightful as what these people talk about. But since they’re rich and can summon a pop-sci author to their dinner table, they convince themselves that they’re intellectuals. It’s just Joe Rogan. Talk to a bunch of “experts” and you become an expert. They don’t have challenging ideas because they don’t have any ideas of their own.

      Chomsky, someone who does have some intellectual chops, despite being an establishment stooge, accepts this sophistry at currency. He does this because despite his intellectualism is still impressed by power and money. He’s just happy to be at the dinner table.

      Case in point:

      • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        20 hours ago

        Also, outside of linguistics where he is a legitimate expert, his intellectualism is vastly overstated. People on “the left” love him in very large part because of Manufacturing Consent, but by Chomsky’s own admission Edward S. Herman was its main author. When you’re left with things like his public statements on political issues, you are confronted with the fact that he’s a god damn fool if not fully a bad actor.

        • Kefla [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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          14 hours ago

          People tend to overestimate the general applicability of expertise of all sorts. There are plenty of brilliant surgeons that I would not trust for a second with a question about marine biology or politics or philosophy or classic literature or any other intellectual pursuit.

          We really need to dismantle the concept of “intelligence” because it just isn’t real. There’s no such thing as a smart person or a dumb person. Just people with varying levels of skill and expertise in any number of different things.

          • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            6 hours ago

            There are plenty of brilliant surgeons that I would not trust for a second with a question about marine biology or politics or philosophy or classic literature or any other intellectual pursuit.

            I would not trust the world’s greatest heart surgeon to operate on my brain. The same thing applies to lawyers. Some lawyer who specializes in copyright law knows jack shit about inheritance and handling an estate. Professors are hyperfocused on their particular field, and depending on how much of a crank they are or how much of an ego they have, completely tunnelvision on their own idiosyncratic understanding of the field even as the field, headed by younger professors with less of an ego, move on.

          • Horse {they/them}@lemmygrad.ml
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            13 hours ago

            There are plenty of brilliant surgeons that I would not trust for a second with a question about marine biology or politics or philosophy or classic literature or any other intellectual pursuit.

            there are plenty of brilliant surgeons i wouldn’t trust with a mop and a bucket of water

          • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            13 hours ago

            There’s also the issue where, if you’ll cede for the sake of argument that general intelligence exists, that does not mean that being very educated in one thing gives you an education in other things, and there are principles of reasoning (and proofs and such) that are present and frequently used in some fields but not others, so general intelligence doesn’t get you very far when you are deeply uninformed because even basic reasoning within a field may be beyond you in many cases (unless you actually study it like the people in that field did).