My wife works in a restaurant, and the power-tripping manager has instituted a new policy where all shift changes must be approved by management. I think that is reasonable enough, but they’re also asking the originally-scheduled employee why they are switching shifts, then approving or denying based on the answer.
For example, her coworker (Tom) wanted Monday afternoon off, and Harry agreed to cover the shift. The manager asked Tom why he wanted Harry to work for him, and Tom said, “I have a softball game.” Manager denied the shift change because it was “unnecessary”.
Is this legal? I feel like if you’re able to find someone to cover your shift, you don’t owe management any explanation why you need the time off. How should my wife approach this situation? Colorado, USA BTW.
I think I would simply comply, maliciously.
What’s my reason? I’m going on a journey in alignment with my religion. Try telling me I can’t follow my religious beliefs on the record.
I work retail and have tuesdays off for my men’s group, which takes 7 hours out of my day once travel is taken into account.
A coworker advised me that if management ever asks about why I need tuesdays off, I should just say “It’s religious”.
“Personal obligation.” Should be the only response anybody gives him going forward.
Bad case of anal glaucoma. I just can’t see my ass going in to work today.
A+, just got to figure out how to work this into conversation without getting HR involved now.
Then use a more medical sounding term
I think my Rectal-Ocular Degeneration is flaring up.
Exactly. I’m a manager and literally never ask the reason unless it’s longer than a week. They like to tell me anyway even though I’ve told them I don’t care.
Maybe they just really feel like they can open up to you, Dicksinabag.
I feel like I could open up to Discksinabag pretty easily
I’d actually prefer it if they opened up to me.
Isn’t that called sounding?
I don’t know, that feels like a risk
Wait, are we all talking about docking now?
I thought we were talking about hamburgers and got hungry. I love dicksinabag
Could go into great detail about significant health issues, becoming more and more emotional as you go on, and tearfully asking “why would you make me talk about this? I wanted to keep this private! I haven’t even told my family yet!”.
One way you might resolve this is to get everybody talking about it without the boss there. I bet nobody likes the policy. Maybe everyone would agree to not give a reason, or to give the same reason that is an obvious lie?
Maybe if all the employees presented a united front. Like a sort of joint group of just the employees. Together in a union of sorts.
Maybe individually they do not have a lot of power, but together could be strong?
Individually they are weak like a single twig, but bundled together they form a mighty removed.
Edit:
Aww, the text filter messed up the joke
Everyone should always say ‘its because I’m on my period.’ Men and post menopausal women too. It could be great, if the first few times the younger women use the line it works. Then whenever someone who doesn’t have menses uses it, everyone unites together and puts a little bit of their labor to helping a coworker. It’d be nice if there was a name for something like that.
It’d be nice if there was a name for something like that.
Synced menstrual cycle?
“Personal reasons”. If they continue to pry just say it’s extemely personal and hopefully they’ll back off.
Well Colorado is an at will state so I would think it would be legal. Shitty but still legal.
Maybe take it up with his boss? I really can’t see the restaurant caring one way or another, as long as the shift is covered by someone qualified to do the job.
“show me in my employment contract where it says I have to disclose that”
If this is in the US employment contracts are virtually nonexistent.
If a policy doesn’t discriminate against a protected class, it’s pretty much legal. Your recourse is to find another job.
We need legal advice communities
With the country built into the community name. Less confusion and wasted energy that way.
In the US, the state matters as well.
Not really, it’s a private company unless you sign a contract they can indeed make their own policies.
Within the laws of the location of the employer. That’s why state and sometimes even local laws matter.
I am pretty sure at any firm bigger than a mom & pop, there will be some sort of written agreement that the employee signs that establishes their intent to work for the employer. That’s an employment contract even if it’s not labeled as such. For example, they can sue if they aren’t paid their agreed compensation. Because there’s a contract for them to receive that compensation.
This is not correct. Wage theft is protected by law, not contract.
An offer letter is specifically not an employment contract - that distinction is usually spelled out in the law and also in virtually every offer letter.
It’s legal but insane. Your wife should start looking for a new job.
Correct, non sick leave is usually considered discretionary time off; meaning, it’s at the discretion of the manager to approve it.
That said, this manager sounds like a nut job. It’s legal to be a hard ass, but people don’t have to remain working for you.
I’m not sure it would be legal if they were forced to reveal medical information.
Christ are we going to be having “hippa”(sic) arguments again?
You can refuse to answer - I sure would. Or just say you have an appointment. Being asked is not illegal.
Then I assume the jerk will just deny your request.
People think hippa is magical medical privacy. It has fuck all to do with telling your manager anything. It only applies to medical professionals or those who may see your records as part of their job. If your manager also processes insurance claims, then it applies, otherwise it’s not different than telling a neighbor.
I have a co-worker who says her reason for the time off request is always gynecology related. Bosses never ask questions.
“Good morning boss, I need two weeks off for gynecology-related activities”.
This is perfect for /c/Antiwork, do you mind if I cross post this?
I would decline to answer, and if pressed, say something vague, such as, “a medical procedure”. That should be enough for most people, but if it they keep pressing, I would come up with something embarrassing, such as, “I need the time off to get my anal prolapse taken care of.” Then be upset that you had to disclose private medical information and ask to speak to HR.
I don’t know if you were addressing the specific case mentioned, but if someone has a softball game they want to go to, and they say they have a medical procedure to take care of, that could easily be grounds for termination.
Best answer I can think of is to unionize and negotiate a CA that includes shift trade rights. Short term, I don’t think there’s much you can do if the company wants to be a dick.
Ok, unemployment.
It’s a restaurant, not the presidency. Get a coworker to be your reference, do well at your interview and move on.
If it’s a softball game, just say “I have to see someone about my balls”.
Mental health is a medical issue. Ergo any vacation is medical.
Points for creative thinking, but I would prefer not to get fired and have to seek redress through the courts.
Despite the fact that, as another user pointed out, restaurants rarely have an HR department, it is important to remember that HR exists solely to protect the company. They are not there to advocate for your rights as an employee. If you think your rights have been violated at work, you should contact your state’s labor department (assuming you are US based). My state even has a nice website that outlines your rights as an employee and a form you can submit if your rights have been violated.
100% this. A former coworker was fired a month ago because he filed an HR complaint about his boss, because the boss was being an asshole to him (according to co worker).
This is the same boss who joked about beating his wife and kicking his dog in a meeting, so I’m fairly certain it’s true.
HR is NEVER your friend.
Yes you use HR as a weapon against such a manager for perceived federal protection violations
That’s exactly the point. HR is there to protect the company from you suing them for forcing you to provide personal medical information that you weren’t comfortable sharing.
Ehh, I’ve worked in HR for 20 years and this isn’t even close to true. It’s what angry losers like to shout on reddit and now lemmy bc they’ve been fired. The whole point of hr is to balance between employees and the company. Sorry you got fired, I’m sure you’ll find your talents valued somewhere else
Sounds like you need to source some tips from
Always give your boss as little information as possible. They aren’t entitled to it and are much more likely to use it against you.
I say that as a manager. It’s just good practice. If the manager doesn’t know exactly why you’re taking the day off, they can’t be held accountable for it either.
What bullshit. I’d make something up every time.
Whether their request is legal or not, my personal life isn’t my employer’s business, and certainly doesn’t revolve around their “approval”.
A lot of incorrect answers here as to the legality - this is not a blanket 100% definitely legal situation. In the US, the boss can certainly ask why. But, if he denies leave for something that is discriminatory then that is an adverse employment action under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act if they employ at least 15 employees.
For instance, if he doesn’t allow leave to someone to observe a religious holiday, but allows others to go on leave under similar circumstances, that could be illegal.
A lot of things could be discriminatory. Its stupid of him to ask for specifics beyond medical vs personal.
My wife is of the opinion that a lot of these policies are being designed to make her work environment miserable. One of the main perks of that job is that two of her close friends also work there. The chef recently instituted a policy that the three of them are not to be scheduled on any shifts together because they “talk to each other too much”.
This shift switch approval policy is new. Before, any shift swich had to be logged in a book, with both employee’s initials. Now, the manager also needs to approve the shift change, and she’s wanting to know why the change is requested, before she decides if she thinks it’s important enough to allow.
It’s a person with .0001 oz of power, trying to get the most out of it.
