Was there even a mass exodus? I largely avoid Reddit now, but I do kind of doubt that they’ve been hurt in any meaningful way by all the protests and people leaving…
Honestly, I don’t really care. I like it here more than reddit and if it stays like it is, awesome.
I have no desire to see reddit succeed or fail, I simply found a place I fit in better.
I agree but I still want Reddit to burn 😂. But I’m an asshole so that’s okay.
Hear, hear!
Here, here!
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Migration goes beyond sheer numbers. The 3.8k users are probably the one that were the most attached to initial Reddit, hence people who would contribute the more. I would rather be with those 3.8k users than the millions of people okay with staying on Reddit despite Spez’s decisions.
I hope that once Lemmy is a bit more polished (instance blocking, account migration, hot filtering working etc.), we will gradually see a second wave of arrivals.
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But if that were the case, wouldn’t GDPR already be used to take down TOR or torrents or any other p2p tech? All it would take is someone’s personal information being on them, right? (I’m really asking I have no idea)
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Then you adapt to that threat with user exports or built in auto migration methods.
The distributed nature makes it much harder to down the fediverse with legal claims than it does reddit/twitter/whatever already. Just being hosted in different countries makes these claims a stunning pain in the ass, as many countries do not require any compliance with the DMCA.
Sure if you want to play in a sandbox alone and have nothing but privacy and lqbgt content (nothing against them in the least bit).
That’s a good point. Right now if I send something out, even if the company I submitted it to deletes it from their servers, doesn’t mean other users will delete copies of the data I want to have deleted. Only the party I submitted it to will have to delete it.
Just take a screenshot of a tweet or a LinkedIn profile or whatever someone posts here in the Fediverse, anyone can capture a copy of it.
It’s currently impossible to follow a GDPR information delete request for example, because you can’t delete the info from other instances.
What makes it impossible? Why would any given instance maintainer be responsible for the data on someone else’s instance? Would it not fall on the GDPR requester to make that request of each individual instance?
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So then if someone requests that Gmail delete all their email data, is Google then responsible for making sure any emails sent out from it’s server to another is also deleted from those external servers?
Just in case you guys are wondering, there’s probably dozens of us enjoying the fuck out of this conversation. Thank you for asking questions I wouldn’t think of asking. On behalf of all three of us lurking.
Lol yeah this is great.
I don’t have the answer but I think of it like this.
Email is essentially a direct conversation between you and someone in the same room but you may extend (cc) to those people in the house. There is an implicit “I am including you in the conversation”
Lemmy on the other hand is more akin to talking to someone in a crowded bar but the conversation is recorded and anyone over the world has the ability to listen to the conversation at any given time.
Apples and oranges.
Interesting perspective, but then cannot we consider that Lemmy users are aware that they are including all of the Fediverse in their conversation? That way Lemmy instances could be treated in the same way email providers are
I really want to hear the answer to this
See https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/right-to-be-forgotten/
Once the “controller has made the personal data public”, they have legal obligations. When you send an email, you are not making it public.
Unless these instances are showing ads and selling data, I’m pretty sure they’re protected from the law. Not only that but if you’re not hosting in the EU that law doesn’t apply to you.
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The problem here is how does that work? If I host something in the USA, how is someone going to bring a lawsuit towards me if I am also in the USA?
Asking honest questions here. As this just sounds like a lot of chest thumping from the EU.
“Provided your company doesn’t specifically target its services at individuals in the EU, it is not subject to the rules of the GDPR.”
Just say, we don’t provide or target EU individuals and you’re free.
Yeah, but if you don’t have any assets in the EU for them to seize, and if you’re not present in the bloc yourself it doesn’t matter for shit. They have no jurisdiction or ability to enforce unless you really, really want to operate inside of their market at scale.
See https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/right-to-be-forgotten/
Once the “controller has made the personal data public”, they have legal obligations.
Yes, but “the controller” is one instance, and it’s certainly easy for one instance to allow a user to be forgotten. You can purge the user from the instance. Then they are forgotten, as far as the instance is concerned.
As an example, just because someone makes a GDPR request on YouTube to delete a video, does not require Google to actually remove the video from the whole internet. There are plenty of websites that archive content which are unaffected by that GDPR request. It’s the exact same thing with different Lemmy instances, just because you ask lemm.ee to delete your content does not mean that lemmy.world needs to delete your content.
The GPDR doesn’t require Lemmy to remove personal data from the entire internet. But when a Lemmy instance gives data to other Lemmy instance, there are legal responsibilities.
https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/ Where the controller has made the personal data public and is obliged pursuant to paragraph 1 to erase the personal data, the controller, taking account of available technology and the cost of implementation, shall take reasonable steps, including technical measures, to inform controllers which are processing the personal data that the data subject has requested the erasure by such controllers of any links to, or copy or replication of, those personal data.
==========
Maybe this is open to interpretation, but I feel that the same Federation protocol that federates out my personal data (my posts and comments), should also federate out my delete requests. I’m unsure why this would be controversial.
This is a big issue of eu regulations. They are needed, but don’t account for non profit initiatives, in practice favoring big players
Well, the upside and the downside of GDPR is that if you’re not a member of the EU, you can basically just tell them to go fuck themselves because they have little to no actual power to impact you since you’re not within their jurisdiction.
I’m never to sure about GDPR. The spirit of the law is that any identifiable information has to indeed be removed.
However, does a Lemmy username really fit that definition? If John Doe has all of his Lemmy content under CoolNick89, I’m not sure GDPR applies.
Emails, especially if they contain first and last name, are a different story, but those would only be known by the host instance.
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Interesting, thanks. I’ll research this further.
IP addresses make more sense, because they can be used to be cross-checked with your ISP to know who you are.
If you don’t tell anyone your username and use a VPN, there is no way for people to guess your Lemmy username
Makes me wonder if the fediverse shouldn’t be individually instanced. Like Each persons phone/browser is their own individual “instance”. Maybe a central hub/series of hubs (like instances as they are now maybe) that act like dns servers to point everyone around. No content is hosted on them, they just tell everyone’s apps where to look to the other apps for posts.
I have no idea, I’m a moron and I don’t know how the internet actually works. I’m guessing this is a problem at scale.
Or those 3.8k users were on Apollo, RIF etc that didn’t bring any revenue to Reddit regardless.
They could care less about these users leaving, there are plenty of new angsty teenagers to take their place
If they’re the same that generated significantly more content, then it’s still a loss for reddit
It doesn’t really matter, though. The fact that I’m here and not using reddit has netted a huge improvement in my happiness.
To be honest, I don’t really care if more reddit users come here. They can keep their bad takes and dick-swinging contests on reddit.
A very good point. To be honest, if they are happy with that new demographic, and we are happy here, everyone’s happy
The next wave won’t come until Lemmy post are indexed by google and ranking up on the first page. Until then, searching for obscure things will still land on old Reddit posts.
Mass migration or not, I’m happier to be here with all of you.
I have to admit, when I came here I was hoping this would be a mass migration, but these days I think Lemmy is already great even without the bulk of Reddit’s user base joining. Easier to participate in conversions, less trolling, less aggression, fewer bots…
Not saying I don’t want Lemmy to grow more, but it’s a fantastic place already.
yeah people here are generally nicer. I do wish there more more active niche communities though
less trolling, less agression
less popcorn </3
But it’s manageable.
Ditto. This has been great
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I wish some of the subs I frequented the most were a bit more active here, but I guess it’s a bit chicken and egg. Need to interact more with Lemmy ourselves to motivate others to.
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How many users moved away from Lemmy.world to another instance?
I think the problem is, Lemmy’s greatest strength (Fediverse) is also the thing that’s going to hold back a mass migration at this point in time. Onboarding with Reddit is a breeze. You make an account, it asks you what your interests are and location based communities and you’re off to the races. Every community on reddit is immediately available to interact with.
When I came to lemmy I almost gave up on my initial onboarding and I’m a pretty tech savvy guy. I didn’t know where to go to start. There’s all these different lemmy sites and I didn’t know if they were the same thing or different and if I was signing up to the right one. Account creation failed initially without giving an error message (I’ll chalk that one up to just a bug). There didn’t seem to be any NSFW communities until I figured out the instance thing. You’re told you can use your account across instances but when you go to another instance via it’s domain you can’t interact with it, you have to get to another instance through your instance which is confusing as a newcomer. Any one of these issues is a falling off point for a less inclined visitor.
I’m not saying the fediverse thing is bad but the unfortunate byproduct of it is a difficult experience for newcomers, especially when you compare it to Reddit. I’m hoping growth in the community will bring in talent to solve for this initial experience or possibly apps which can handle all of this more seamlessly.
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Is it important that Reddit suffers? For me the important thing is that lemmy flourishes and has good oc.
I support this point of view, but at the same time I want the status quo to be disrupted and the internet to change, I’m not a fan of allowing corporations to fall into complacency when they hold so much power.
Right? Ignore them, have fun here. No reason to give any thought to them.
That’s the spirit!
This is what I wish more lemmings would grasp. I’ve commented before how there’s this disillusionment that reddit actually died when a bunch of people left. It didn’t. The sooner everyone can stop being in denial about that, the better.
The situation is really more akin to an abusive ex and the people that left realizing that they’re better off without them. You’re in a better place. Stop talking about, focusing on the drama that your ex brought and just embrace your newer better environment.
Millions of people are in that situation and don’t leave because they’ve been manipulated, they’re scared, and in this case addicted. My brother in law switched from Apollo to the official app and hates it, complains every day, and says reddit sucks now…but won’t leave.
To use your analogy of the abusive ex… would you want someone to just never talk about the abusive ex? Never process the trauma? That’s what a lot of people are doing. Noticing that the abusive ex is imploding into a death spiral is kind of validating of your decision to leave. It’s part of the process. There’s no need to shame people for it.
The post is a week old, but regardless, people have had their time to grieve and process. Your friends and family were there for you, they let you vent, they helped you make the transition away from your partner…but they’re gone. It’s time to move on. Let it go. You’re stuck in denial while most people have made it all the way to acceptance. Everyone is ready for you to stfu about your ex.
You’re also reading too much into the analogy. This isn’t really an ex, it’s a link aggregating website and online forum. Just like nobody cared if you deleted your myspace, your Facebook, digg, Tumblr, TikTok, YouTube, etc…nobody really cares that you deleted your reddit account.
They’ve had their time according to you but maybe people can make their own decisions? Also maybe just chill about it? You don’t have to listen, you don’t have to be here for any of the conversations.
Also you’ve created an entire community of family and friends with backstories so you can then tell me all these imaginary people want me to “stfu”, but apparently I’m the one “reading too much into the analogy”. I think you’re the one that just wants me to “stfu” but you don’t want to say it directly.
I think you’re the one that just wants me to “stfu” but you don’t want to say it directly.
Yes, that would be great. Stfu. Please. Thank you.
You don’t have to listen, you don’t have to be here for any of the conversations.
You seem to have missed the extreme irony in saying this whole replying to a sub comment a week after it was posted by someone who agreed with me.
If you want me to stfu you can just block me, or just stop saying things directy to me that are blatantly wrong. Up to you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And I don’t see what the age of the thread or the fact the poster agreed with you - although they don’t exactly, that’s another thing you’re wrong about - has to do with anything. I’m not here complaining about you talking, I’m pointing out how what you’re saying is wrong. You’re the one literally saying you want people to “stfu”. I’m glad you’ve at least owned it now.
Yeah, but like… I have a gf to have someone to converse with. This new gf of mine basically doesn’t speak so I’m just sitting here watching the wallpapers in silence, whereas my ex, while crazy, was very talkative and entertaining.
Ok but your ex getting hooked on heroin and ending up in a prison morgue won’t make your new gf any more interesting.
Yeah but if my current gf is just being silent I’m like… girl why are we even dating? I’ll keep dating her but damn. It’s not a great relationship and I miss the crazy hoe.
If you miss her so bad, you can just go back. It’s okay, really, I guess most people still go to both website. It’s a website after all, don’t see too much into it.
On my side I’m just reminded everytime I have to use RedReader to access Reddit on my phone that they really don’t want me there.
The thing is I can’t. Because if I do I’ll most likely inadvertently break up with my new gf, and I really do want her to succeed in life and for us to get married at some point. I’ll give her some more time.
I basically never used Reddit on my phone and on the computer it’s always old.reddit + RES. Also a reason why Lemmy feels a bit gnnnnh. Navigating without keyboard shortcuts is a paaaain.
Did you have a look at this? https://github.com/vmavromatis/Lemmy-keyboard-navigation
Also this community might interest you: https://sh.itjust.works/c/plugins
It’s petty, but I do hope Reddit suffers. Spez and co has profited off user generated content, free moderation of their communities for a decade plus. Forcing users into the Reddit app that is garbage compared to other 3rd party apps, not to mention the privacy concerns with the app which rivals Facebook.
Quote from Spez in 2016. In May, Steve Huffman said in an interview at the TNW Conference that, unlike Facebook, which “only knows what [its users are] willing to declare publicly”, Reddit knows its users’ “dark secrets”
If Reddit collapses or at the very least their IPO collapses and we can prevent another sociopath from being a billionaire I’ll be very happy with the situation.
It can be seen as a statistic for lemmy’s success
Personally I came over bc the app I used stopped working (boost). Lemmy seems to have the same content I used reddit for:
- US politics headlines
- Memes
- Niche communities
I don’t plan on going back to reddit unless it’s via Boost. Fediverse is better anyway
Poor one out for Boost! I’m on the waiting list for his new Boost for Lemmy. Can’t wait.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rubenmayayo.lemmy
Pour*, but ya. I used sync and I loved it. But I also used the free version of boost. I’d probably go with whichever one came out first 😂
Sync was the first app that looked nicer AND improved usability for me, after almost a decade of RIF. So I paid for the dev version to support it, and don’t regret it even with what happened.
I have really enjoyed Jerboa while waiting for Sync, can recommend. It’s on the Play Store and native android (+ open source on GitHub)
Dang nabbit! I hate misperling easy words!
Sameee! Excited to see the finished product
Can’t wait for Boost for Lemmy to release.
The app will continue to work if you are a moderator of any subreddit… I’ve got a few subreddits that I created myself, with only me in it, and because of that I can still use the app.
Considering deleting my account however…
This is neat information but I can’t be arsed to go do all that 😂
Fair lol
I don’t know if I’d call it a mass exodus, and I don’t know that it directly has anything to do with Lemmy, but there’s been a noticeable dip in quality. Fewer posts across many of the front page subreddits, fewer votes, more bot posts, more low effort posts, less discussion in comment sections, lots of deleted comments and accounts… overall there just seems to be a dip in quality.
I was going to delete, but decided to stick around for a while first, to see how things pan out, and I’ve got to say the mobile site is even worse than expected. I get constant pop ups trying to direct me to download the app, then when I say no the website will auto reload, often sending me back to the top of the page. It’s difficult to find and respond to anyone who replies to your comments, and sometimes if you sort by top: today it won’t even show any posts. Just… blank. Clicking on a post opens it as a tab that is more like a popup, and closing it resets where you were on the page.
I could keep going but I think that pretty much summarizes what I’ve noticed. Don’t know that it’s directly related to a Lemmy “exodus,” and I’m still finding my way around here so I can’t really say, but reddit as we knew it seems pretty dead.
That’s actually what some of us were predicting would happen. We would expect a metric like “quality posts per user” to follow something like the 80:20 rule - 80% were created by 20% of the users. If those users and mods were skewed in the direction of the strongest detractors/leavers, you’d find the average quality would indeed go down.
Yeah, I got all my accounts permanently banned and the hacked app I was using was deauthorized. Tried using the mobile website and noticed all those problems also. Only use reddit now when it comes up in searches but I try to avoid it even then.
I don’t think any platform collapses overnight. What you have to do is do is make something “better” and engage in a campaign of attrition to get people to move over. Produce content that other visitors see and like. Submit links to that content to aggregators (e.g. Slashdot / Fark etc.). Even start submitting links on Reddit that lead over to Lemmy and so on.
Make Lemmy feel as normal as Reddit. People will get used to the interface, the quirks and perhaps stay. Every person who stays is one less for Reddit. Now “better” is doing some heavy lifting since Lemmy has some advantages (ad free, federated) and some disadvantages (inline media & limits, sign up confusion, app). The disadvantages need to be addressed and the advantages need to be made stronger.
I didn’t leave to make the service worse.
The service got worse, and so I left.
But why not both? 😂
No, of course not. If you’re using Lemmy as a “protest” instead of thinking that it’s a better platform, it’s totally ineffectual and you’ll go back to using Reddit sooner or later. Personally, I think that the fediverse is a more compelling idea than the traditional internet, so I’m sticking with Lemmy for a bit in one form or another.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to protest by using alternatives, and then going back if there’s real change. (naïve, maybe)
Initially really wanted Reddit to take a hit so that they would be forced to reconsile, but I became disillusioned quite quickly. Compared to the fediverse, it is rotten; Spez is only the mouthpiece for their internal chess game.
He probably spoke the truth, when he claimed to previously having been the only one defending the third party apps.
100%. Fediverse is my jam.
Agreed, though these aren’t mutually exclusive. Lemmy as it stands is objectively a better platform in terms of mobile user experience now that third party apps were gutted for Reddit. So switching, at least for itself, is a protest using this platform while Reddit either dies a slow, painful death or takes strides to unshittify their stuff. Will probably end up using both if Reddit gets it together but that’s unlikely.
Honestly, yeah, a big part of why I started using Lemmy is that the Sync developer moved to developing a Lemmy app. I’m still active on Reddit, I’m using both, but as soon as Sync for Lemmy comes out and I can uninstall that absolutely cursed official Reddit app I’ll be here WAY more often.
I doubt there’s been enough people moving to create an impact. I used to visit Reddit multiple times a day but now it’s once a week if at all. When I have looked all my old subs look no different really.
No idea, and I don’t care. What matters for me is that there are enough people on Lemmy to keep it interesting.
word
How in the bloody hell are those characters in a username?!
I fucking love it, my guy!
Just wanted to say that’s a real cool username
Exactly. We don’t need Reddit to fail, we just need Lemmy (or Kbin, I don’t discriminate) to succeed.
This is a much healthier mindset, and I completely support this. I don’t actually want to see a mass migration to Lemmy because it would just instantly replicate a lot of the same issues that Reddit had. Slower, organic, and well scaled growth is wholly preferable to a massive swarm of users. I also think the general quality of users on Lemmy is currently about 10,000% higher than on Reddit, and I would - selfishly - like to see it stay that way.
Profit wise, absolutely not. However, they are probably losing their most technical users. Generally the ones that have some sort of tech background or knowledge and see through their BS, and who are also much more likely to support open source alternatives (and third party apps) and have an easier time figuring out the fediverse. Maybe they care about that, maybe they don’t (probably don’t).
Quite so. We don’t need them to suffer, we just need to build a more resilient and tight-knit community here. Quality or death.
Exactly. Leave Reddit for yourself, not for Reddit.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but as soon as RIF died I was gone. Was on it for over 10 years, and the only way I would view reddit content. Reddit’s ui is cancer.
Same for me, but the Joey app instead
I went with sync!
Ljdawson is doing a sync for Lemmy!
Strangely, RiF works again for browsing
I don’t even see it in the playstore anymore ¯\(ツ)/¯
Their user numbers are available with a web search. Reddit useage dipped towards end of June but has mostly leveled out.
Quite a few mods left, which has had a larger impact than an equal number of general users leaving would. The niche topic sub I was involved in went from four mods to one half-hearted mod. The quality of posts has dropped. Almost every comment thread contains complaints. Reports are piled up.
Most surprising to me when I peeked at the sub this weekend was the amount of borderline-incel desperation and negativity. The sub is for a hobby that while slightly male majority, we had plenty of women contributing with minimal problems. Not anymore. If I were a woman looking at that sub for the first time, I would probably block it. It is so depressing and angry now, I barely recognize it.
I have to wonder how much of Reddit’s traffic is bots and lurkers though.
Post quality is a bigger indicator, and that does seem to be dropping. This is why Reddit banning 3rd party apps was such a big deal. It doesn’t matter if 99% of your users use the official app if 99% of the content posted to the side is posted by the 1% that don’t.
As someone who was around for the digg migration, it didn’t drop off overnight (hell digg.com is still around), but they gradually bled content until everyone was on Reddit. Lemmy right now is very reminiscent of early Reddit.
Post quality is a bigger indicator, and that does seem to be dropping
That’s the thing - it’s hard to track this. If anything it’ll be a slow decline
It’s hard to track this
Not at all. I can already see a decline in the number of Reddit TTS videos I see on my feed and when I do, they’re mostly years old
TTS?
Text to speech. There are Tiktok accounts that just scrape popular text posts from Reddit and read them out through text to speech over a video of something like Minecraft parkour or Subway Surfers.
Agreed and not just content creators but active users in general. I bet someone like me who now on average posts 10 messages a day to Lemmy was more valuable to reddit than 10 lurkers.
Do you mind sharing the sub? I’m curious to take a look.
Several major subs have closed, they’re forced to campaign to keep mods, a significant amount of content generators have left. Even though it’s been only a couple weeks, they’ve slid on the global index of visited sites. They’ve lost 3-4% of 1.7 billion views in weeks. That’s 10’s of millions of ads not delivered. That alone is several million dollars lost on a site trying to be profitable. This doesn’t include people on the fence, people currently unaffected because their app didn’t die until this week, or people just watching the drama until it’s boring again. Also, Reddit depends heavily on free labor to succeed, the bulk of the community that is leaving is their free labor pool. They don’t have the cash to pay moderators for their time and they just removed the tools that let those people do their work.
What major subs did close? Not saying it’s not so, just curious.
/r/pics didn’t close, but probably doesn’t get the clicks it did before.
/r/bestof seems to only make a daily protest post.
I’ve stopped visiting so much, so I don’t know a lot, but those two seem significant.
Removed by mod
At time of posting, there are still 1922 subreddits that are private
https://reddark.untone.uk/
Or the 855 subreddits that have chosen to move to other platforms on sub.rehab
But hey, if you don’t like it here, that’s fine, you don’t have to be here. If you’re that bored that you’re choosing to spend time flaming in a social media that you don’t enjoy, might I suggest some hobbies like video games, picking up an instrument, or underwater basket weaving.
CheersUnderwater… basket weaving? (Wondering if this is a technique I hadn’t heard of for softening materials or suggesting one compromise their lung function 🤣)
Why not both?
Yeah, it’s usually done to soften the material, but I’m not responsible for anyone that misunderstands and incidentally drowns themselves 🙃
This place is fueled by pure compium.
If you’re going to rail at someone, at least check for typos first.
Gotem!
I found a large amount of the developer / programming reddits died, so I noticed a large difference but a lot of other subs there has been no change so it depends on what you are in.
