“Kidnapping people, separating them from their family, locking them in prison and then exiling them from the country? That’s a horrible thing to do! Unless of course they happen to have not done some paperwork correctly and were born on the other side of this line we drew in the dirt, then its just common sense.” /s
Hell even if you did all the paperwork correctly, as an asylum seeker you would have a small window of 5 years where.
- If you leave the US your process is cancelled.
- If you don’t show up to the 3 random court calls in time your process is cancelled.
- Court takes place in the USA.
- You are not a legal citizen in the USA until you finish all the courts.
Additionally.
- You aren’t allowed to have a job until you pay a fee and wait 6-12 months for the EAD.
- You still pay taxes and can’t vote.
And if you do show up on time, ICE might just arrest you at the court appearance and sell you into slavery!
The leading reason to oppose immigration is racism. But people are embarrassed to admit it. Nobody opposes anything because it’s illegal.
You can force anyone to admit they don’t care about what’s legal by simply asking what if we changed the law?
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You might enjoy the phrase “Constitutional border protection.” The US had no immigration laws whatsoever for nearly a century, and none are in the Constitution, so it’s fun to push the same button that right-wingers do with the Second Amendment, but for immigration.
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The Constitution is not the totality of law nor was it ever intended to be. It is the guide rails that establishes the scope that the rest of the legal system exists within.
How would framing immigration in comparison to the Bill of Rights even push the same buttons as the Second Amendment? The Constitution grants Congress the authority and requirement to protect the country and to set naturalization law, which is immigration. There is, as you said, no constitutional right to become an American citizen.
Piss off right-wingers with Due Process, because Constitutionally everyone on US soil or in US custody for any reason, and that means Everyone with a capital E, is covered under Due Process.
Shouldn’t that be an easy question to answer though?
If a supermajority left-wing government changed immigration law to free and unrestricted passage across borders, making anyone who sets foot on US soil is legally a resident if they wish and further entitled to a pathway citizenship if they want it, then that would be the law and must be followed.
Anyone would still be free to run their campaign on changing immigration law back, or to something else. Economic and societal performance under that hypothetical law change would determine if a supermajority of “change immigration law to XYZ” then gets elected to do that.
There is always a possibility that putting no or too few limits on immigration causes irreversible damage to a country before course correction can happen, but the same is true for extreme polarization and unresolvable political divide.
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A peaceful and united world without borders would be awesome. I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but when we have so many examples of one culture completely wiping out another I can’t get there. Tibet is a “recent” example, all Native cultures in North and South America are more. Most of Africa as well.
I do think that not all cultures are equal because all cultural institutions are not equal. Child marriage, caste, women’s rights, LGBT rights, etc. are components that make up cultures, and everyone thinks their culture’s interpretation of these is superior and should be enforced as the norm. This will be THE blocker for a united one world society without borders.
Looking into why there are too many people coming from country X to fix those problems, no matter how generously you are trying to make sure their plate has enough, will invariably run into cultural clashes with fixes. International solidarity and support should increase, but at what point is that cultural colonialism? Can for example Sharia Law coexist perfectly with liberalism? Can a society made with conflicting ideas about autonomy exist?
Not to counteract that there is definitely a decent amount of racism involved, but isn’t your point about law changing hypotheticals basically useless? If the government changed any law making any currently illegal immoral thing legal, wouldn’t anyone not care about what’s legal? And just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. Some states still have legal child marriage, that doesn’t mean anyone should like it and there should be mass efforts to make it illegal.
There is definitely a middle ground between open border immigration and what is happening now. Not everyone who is against illegal immigration is racist, and I would hesitate to even attempt to claim racism is a majority reason. It’s has become a thought-terminating cliche the same way “woke” or DEI is for the Right.
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Wanda Sykes put it best:
"If someone broke into my house… and vacuumed?
*shrug* same time next week?"
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Account’s 1h old, and all of their posts are this.
Do what you will with that information. I’m blocking them.
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In the UK and we talk about people smugglers like we don’t have a navy that could provide the transport ourselves
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Calling it all racism is a thought-terminating cliche. Not all groups of humans have the same societal values, and that is not intrinsically tied to race. It is economic in origin. There certainly are racists like you describe, but they are most likely a vocal minority.
The wealthier a society becomes, the more picky it can afford to become. Personal autonomy can be selected for easier when hand to mouth subsistence isn’t taking up 100% of your time. Things like Abrahamic religious laws arise from subsistence societies. This doesn’t make cultural friction any less real or impactful.
Women’s rights and abolition of child marriage is the result of privilege, but that doesn’t mean they are bad things. When “most” people talk about integration, they are broadly talking about adoption of those values.
To your final point, sadly a mass reduction in habitable land will almost inevitably result in reciprocal population loss. Probably violently through wars of conquest for the remaining resources.
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No, it’s clearly not “brown people from over there”. What you are describing is assimilation into your culture. That requires that the people immigrating want to assimilate and join “you”. Also, a subset of sickos within “Western” culture being pedos is not the same as a society that believes child marriage is normal (or preferable).
Fundamentalist Christianity (any denomination or offshoot) is generally a “white people” culture and is also fundamentally incompatible with Western liberal society just as much as Islam is or Hindu caste is etc, so no, it is not just a “brown people” thing. White Christians don’t need to keep practicing things that harm kids, but it is part of their culture so they still do. And they influence or attempt to set the law to conform to their cultural beliefs. That is the concern with non-assimilation and mass immigration of any kind, anywhere.
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“It’s all racism”
Okay, frick off. I’ve had problems with immigrants in my country and each and every time my problem is not with them as a whole, but with the ones that do not want to integrate with local culture. If you come to another country - to the home of another culture - do not spit the host in the face, simple as. Learn the language, respect the local traditions (not “commit to local traditions” - but respect them), integrate with community. Not sure how it is in USA, but most outrage I hear in EU is basically small part of immigrants causing trouble and giving fuel to xenohpobes. Both should get kicked IMO.
I am aware I am minority and that most of the folk actually are simply xenohpobic, but I get kinda pissed when people spit out such dumb takes like “It’s all X!”.
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Curious, because you see, I am not looking out of them If anything I am one of the people who tell others to chill and point out they’re minority. The same thing I even said in my comment above.
And curious double time because right now we have a huge amount of same-colored folk with similiar sounding language coming to this country and, that may shock you, they also face xenophobia. They also fall victims to few bad apples being used to paint all of them as lazy, ungrateful jerks.
Please avoid weird assumptions that do not stem from what someone said.
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Have you read their Bio? It explains everything.
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Companies hire them illegally and nobody goes after them! Why aren’t we enforcing the law for them!? Until you are willing to go out into the fields and pick crops for poverty wages, or advance legislation to enable them to do it legally, STFU about illegal immigration…
To be fair, many against illegal immigration push for going after companies who hire illegal immigrants. A lot of those many would prefer to go after the employers first, because you solve a problem at the source and not by treating symptoms. E-Verify and employment law are supposed to do that, if there is no economic incentive then most illegal immigration stops.
As for seasonal migrant workers, there are laws enabling them to do it legally. They need desperately need to be updated and expanded, but the legal groundwork is there.
Native Americans have entered the chat
Based Cozmo frfr
(His creator is not very based tho)
Really? Huh, I hadn’t expected that, and I hadn’t heard. What happened?
Hartman is an evangelical grifter.
Least morally bankrupt Nickelodeon creator
Want to know what being “illegal” constitutes as? It’s a civil misdemeanor. That’s it. It’s a low offense. But the system is made so you either get ground to a pulp to get in or sneak in then deal with the system afterwards.
So they’re trespassing? Jesus has something to say about that
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
FTFY:
Depends on how they’re seeking it. Plenty of people seek a better life through hurting others.
And not many of those are immigrants.
Conservative: “We just think that laws should matter. These people are here in violation of the law.”
Liberal: “Our immigration laws are a mess though and don’t meet anyone’s needs. Don’t you think we should overhaul that whole system?”
Conservative: “Sure. We can agree on that. But before we talk about new laws, we have to obey the laws we have.”
Liberal: “Let me get this straight: we should take a law everyone agrees is totally broken, go out and fully implement it, by force if necessary, and THEN fix it?”
Conservative: “You don’t understand. This is about rule of law. You either respect the laws of this country or you don’t.”
Liberals: “Laws like Roe v. Wade?”
Conservative: “Well that’s not a law that’s a court ruling.”
Liberal: “I see. So that one loses on a technicality. But a completely broken set of laws gets you out into the streets, up in arms?”
Conservative: “Here’s the part where you call me a racist.”
Liberal: “…”
Conservative. “We just think that laws should matter.”
Idk…you could pay me to do it. I’d just be “quiet quitting”.
But they’re here illegally!
While doing everything they can to make it as difficult and expensive as possible yet enjoying the economic benefits of exploited (illegal) labor.
There’s a huge difference between hating an individual, and wanting the rule of law respected, I think. What’s going on now is hatred and destruction, which abuses the name of the law. But saying, “this person is self-evidently in this place illegally, they should be tried and ejected”, is not hateful. You can respect a person while saying they shouldn’t be in a place.
Too bad I have this moral obligation to disobey stupid laws.
stupid
What does “false consensus” mean?
That’s certainly a choice, and one I’ve made in the past too. But I stand by the point that the law does not demand disrespect.
law does not demand disrespect.
Unjust laws do.
I don’t believe in borders man
wanting the rule of law respected
As an American, I would be mortified to use the phrase “rule of law” outside of a joke.
Any law that criminalizes behavior that does not cause anyone harm is unjust, and we therefore have a moral duty to disobey it. Your insistence that “respecting the rule of law” is not hateful is no different from using “just following orders” as an excuse for immoral actions. You cannot be seriously suggesting that it is respectful to tell a person they don’t belong in this country because they don’t have the proper paperwork. Fuck borders, fuck ICE, CBP, DHS, and fuck the rule of law. I refuse to accept inhumane treatment simply because the law demands it.
The problem is that even then it’s such a tiny “infraction,” so victimless, that going out of the way to enforce it is fucking insane. It’s like if we shot all jaywalkers dead on sight. It’s like if we arrested everyone who ever went over the speed limit and kept them in jail for 90 days waiting for a hearing.
If someone is visibly committing a dangerous crime, and it turns out they should be deported, that’s one thing. Breaking into people’s fucking houses, fucking taking people while they are in the process of going to the courthouse to go through the legal immigration process, dragging people out of fucking cars, none of this is necessary, and moreover, it’s fucking reprehensible.
“But dey broke da lawwww” a kid who smoked a joint doesn’t deserve the electric chair bro. And they are fucking executing white, born-here American citizens in the streets in broad daylight for NOTHING.
So in closing, fuck that, fuck all of that.
Good points. I just wanted to add even Pre-Trump the fact people need to go to court to argue their right to live in a country is stupid.
The immigration process should be nothing but a security check and be given ID in a civilized society
What would happen if there was suddenly no border policy whatsoever in the US? That anyone could come in at any time they like and stay as long as they like.
I would try to find another place to live, because that would lead to chaos.
Good riddance.
yea, the problem is that it’s a shitty, hateful law that is enforced for shitty, hateful reasons
“You can respect a person while saying they shouldn’t be in a place.”
“This person is self-evidently in this place illegally, they should be tried and ejected”
On behalf of the queer community this sounds really bad. I’ve seen similar rhetorical lines a lot, typically to defend the removal of queer media and other forms of expression.
I have never seen these be used to argue anything good.
There is a difference between the more liberal “enlightened” enforcement and the more brutal (and much worse) fascist enforcement. But the liberal apparatus (while comparatively considerably better) was still never just
