so true
looks hot.
If the number of genders tends to infinity, the number of people of each gender tends to zero
Also, since there are a finite amount of people, the number of genders per person will also tend to infinity.
This is
gaysomething as fuck.I think you meant to say hot
Same as the question of “abolish the family” or “make more family shapes”?
Imo, with both gender and family… the problem is not individuals/groups using these constructs for self-organization and self-expression. It’s government granting legal recognition (and benefits) to some kinds of gender/family but not others.
i think the issue with gender goes far beyond governments.
everyday people uphold rigid gender roles and force us into binary cis genders. everyday people hold gender and bio essentialist views.
ofc governments and companies contribute to this and uphold it as well, but without them the issue would not magically be solved. we need a social change towards a different view of gender, giving it much less importance, so it loses its power over us.
These are the two most feminine people I’ve ever seen
Enbys don’t have to look a certain way
edit: typo
Does wanting to make more/ abolish gender make you enby?
Sorry, I responded to the wrong comment
Yeah, it’s a nice idea but feels like enby erasure
I’m nonbinary, it’s not enby erasure. It actually upsets me way more that some people seem to think this is enby erasure because idk the one saying “Abolish gender” looks feminine I guess? Because it you were to look at me on the street without context your first guess would literally be that I’m a cis man. So am I suddenly less valid of an enby because I’m 6’2" tall, built like a fridge cosplaying Bigfoot and have zero idea what I would even want out of transition?
By the logic you’re employing here decrying enby erasure you would literally commit enby erasure. We don’t owe anyone androgyny.
To my eyes, both characters appear to be drawn in an extremely feminine manner.
If anybody wants to both present themselves and behave in an entirely binary manner, but feels differently on the inside, then that’s entirely valid … I think most of us have at least struggled with that at some point, if not for most of our lives.
But that’s not something being shown or described in this comment. There are rafts of comics depicting binary people, so from that the comic seems at best to be lazy or perhaps thoughtless.
Well the text isn’t the original text of the comic.
But as a (usually) femme-presenting enby, I could easily be either of those people depending on the day, and i’m still just as nonbinary.
There’s no wrong way to be nonbinary.
Edit to add:
I see and kind of agree with your point, but not with how you chose to state it.
We do need better enby representation, and limiting ourselves to characters who could easily pass as cis is bad. But that doesn’t mean that someone can’t take a comic that wasn’t initially about being nonbinary and make the characters nonbinary if they want to, since there’s no wrong way to be nonbinary.
There would also be nothing wrong with an original character who is nonbinary but looks stereotypically femme, assuming it came from an authentic place.
Ah ok, I thought it was an original comic
Point taken, and thank you for not being an ass over a difference of opinion!
I don’t care how you perceive the characters. You are basically saying “They can’t be nonbinary, they’re too feminine,” which again means you’re literally by the same logic calling people like me invalid.
Nonbinary people don’t owe you androgyny and nonbinary characters can look like literally anyone and be nonbinary. They can look androgynous, like the most femme cis woman, the manliest cis man, or any combination thereof.
So, to be clear, you’re saying that someone who is happy to present as their gender assigned at birth, behave like their gender assigned at birth, who doesn’t feel dysphoria, and is socialised as their gender assigned at birth can be non-binary?
Why would I think that anyone owes me androgyny? I just think that if someone is shown as living a happy life in a specifically binary manner, they aren’t representative of enbies.
So, to be clear, you’re saying that someone who is happy to present as their gender assigned at birth, behave like their gender assigned at birth, who doesn’t feel dysphoria, and is socialised as their gender assigned at birth can be non-binary?
Where are you getting all this info from? From the perspective of the comic, ignoring that it’s a meme comic, there’s no way to tell what gender either character was assigned at birth, let alone any of the other details. Either one could’ve been AMAB, and the second one is at least a former cutter based on the scars (the shoulder is a popular location because it doesn’t show when you wear a t-shirt). Was that from dysphoria? Who knows, they didn’t tell us. Edit: just went back and realized those are folds in the sleeve of their shirt, not scars. This image needs more pixels.
From a broader perspective: …yes? To be considered a certain gender you only need to identify as that gender. There are no other requirements. You don’t need to act a certain way, look a certain way, or even have dysphoria. Is a trans woman who’s in the closet not a woman? If they identify as a woman, they’re a woman. If they identify as nonbinary, then they’re nonbinary.
The dysphoria one is also a big one for me, so I’m gonna talk about it specifically just in case it helps someone who happens to read this: you don’t need to have dysphoria in order to be trans. You don’t. If you’re happy as your AGAB but feel like you’d be happier as another gender, then go ahead and transition. Or don’t. Or only go as far as makes you happy. Because at the end of the day, it’s about being comfortable in your own skin.
So many trans people think “well, I didn’t have dysphoria as a kid so I can’t be trans” or some variation of that thought, only to transition and either find out that, yes, they did experience dysphoria and just couldn’t tell because it was their normal everyday experience, or experience the more important gender euphoria after they transition.
ok, that’s fair - change “gender assigned at birth” to “either traditional binary gender”
So now you’re assuming I don’t feel dysphoria and just do things outside of my outward gender presentation to deal with it?
I do not identify with being male. Being perceived as male gives me a lot of dysphoria. But crucially with me being built like Bigfoot, going for androgyny makes feel like “Bigfoot in Drag” and makes me feel like I’m calling more attention to the fact that I was assigned male at birth than just continuing with the male presentation. Especially when I don’t know what precisely I want out of transition.
So yes, the thing that helps my dysphoria most is keeping my identity “for me” and the people close to me. Having them treat me like “hey I know you look like a man, but I know you’re not one,” and doing things “for me” that affirm my identity. Also I find it hilarious that you’re telling A FUCKING NONBINARY PERSON that they’re not a good example of being an enby because they’re presenting as their AGAB yet in the same breath basically agreeing that we don’t owe anyone androgyny. Which is it? Am in only valid being AMAB if I’m presenting femme or androgynous? Is masc presentation only allowed for AFAB enbies? Kinda sounds like you’re saying we’re only valid if we present the “right way” for you.
I wasn’t talking about you. Why would I be talking about you?
Can enby not present feminine?
It does come across as erasure…
I’m nonbinary, no it’s not erasure. We do not owe anyone androgyny. If you saw me on the street your first thought would be that I’m a cis man. Am I suddenly not a valid enby because I’m 6’2" built like a fridge cosplaying Bigfoot, and have zero idea what I would even want out of transition? That makes my identity less valid and somehow “erasure” in fact?
Given that it’s a catch-all term, I suppose so … from my perspective it would feel like cross-dressing.
absolutely valid and ok that u do not want to present like that but to underline the point, that enbies can indeed want to look however and can even present very feminin: my prefered appearance is exactly that. there is no one nonbinary appearance.
i do wish there were more androgynous representation around
Of course people can present how they want, or how they need to in order to survive, and will still be valid. This comic didn’t give me that impression.
Big ditto on wanting androgynous representation … or blending outside of the binary representation!
