What we have called “motorcycles” should actually be called “enginecycles”. Also, the engine on enginecycles is a four-cycle engine.
Some motorcycles have starter motors, these are hybrids now.
Anything is everything if you blur the lines enough.
Don’t tell that to e-bike fans. They’re very vocal and easily triggered.
And don’t dare suggesting helmets or licenses. They will crucify you.
Ebike fan here. Can confirm. My pitchfork is already out.
Well first off, whether or not an internal combustion engine is called a motor or an engine differs by region for English-speakers and in fact in my language there’s only “mootor”, for both electric and combustion engines.
Secondly, the engine on an enginecycle could also be a two-cycle engine, that’s common in small engined dirtbikes and moped particularly.
Thirdly, this may depend on your local legislation, but where I live, a low-power e-bike would be a moped and a high-power e-bike would be a motorcycle. In terms of the license requirements anyway. If it’s limited to 25 km/h and requires pedaling, then it’s an assisted bicycle and requires no license and no helmet (provided you’re over 16).
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The Honda Goldwing is a six cylinder outdoor Campervan Winnebago.
Does it smell like a steak and seat 35?
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
It seats ten midgets comfortably.
What if I need to transport thirteen and do not care of their comfort?
Side bags. Always a solution!
Really unfortunate this classification system has happened. What you’re thinking of is an electric moped, but it’s all getting lumped together. Check this out.
The differentiator is max speed in Canada. Regardless of how they are built. If you can exceed a certain speed, license required.
I think that’s a good system. I have a pedal assisted bike and it feels like it’d be ridiculous to need to license it (it does have a “full throttle” mode, but I don’t think it can even make it up to 20mph).
ice cycles. I really am not fond of ice on so many levels.
There’s definitely two stroke/cycle motorcycles out there. They’re less popular nowadays due to emissions but have lasted quite a bit longer than 2 stroke cars or trucks have…
I have a really old two smoke dirt bike, it’s noisy and smelly and tries to kill me almost every time I ride it.
they ended in 2021.
My friend said something similar to me a long time ago. I said, General Motors…?
ITT: y’all be taking my random before-bed shit thought way too seriously.
some of the cooler enginecycles comes with two-cycle engines
Upvote for the main thought, but
- A gasoline engine is a type of motor. You are making a distinction without a difference. A motor is just something that produces mechanical motion. Motor. Motion. Motivate. All come from the same root as “move”
- An “engine” can be the whole apparatus that does the work, not merely the thing that provides the power, and could be powered by a water, beast, or even manually such as the cotton [en]gin[e]. A lot of that usage comes from pre WW2, but it survives in things like “train engine” (the vehicle that pushes or pulls a train) and “game engine” (the program architecture that manages the processing power provided by the computer to convert user interactions, game assets, etc. into something that we recognize as a game).
- It’s not a four-cycle engine. It is a four-stroke engine: each piston makes four strokes each complete engine cycle.
Multiple decades on this earth, decent schooling, undergraduate degree in history, and yet today is the day I discover why the cotton gin is called that. Wild. Thank you for sharing.
It’s not a four-cycle engine. It is a four-stroke engine: each piston makes four strokes each complete engine cycle.
“A four-stroke (also four-cycle) engine”
Touché
I didn’t know what to say but you nabbed it.
Also reminds me of the motor effect: electromagnetism causing motion. Perhaps that’s why the name ‘electric motor’ became so dominant…
Wow, you absolutely destroyed that kid
Take that, me!
I… I…
sometimes I underestimate the power of my own pedantry…
To your point, “engine” at one time referred specifically to an electrically driven device, and “motor” referred to something combustion driven.
Etymologically, engine means “mechanical device” and motor originates in Latin meaning “mover”.
I do agree with OP that a 2 wheel contrivance with any kind of motor/engine is a motorcycle (motorized cycle) from a regulatory perspective, though I’d never call one a motorcycle.
Really? Because I don’t remember pedaling my Honda 750.
Try pumping the gear shift lever and rear brake. It’ll probably do something. Not sure what.
I don’t remember pedaling my eBike, either. With a big enough motor, they’re all but completely vestigal.
It’s true that there are different classes of ebikes. Class 3 ebikes with enough power can be basically motorcycles disguised as bikes. Mine is a class 1 and very much a bicycle. If the distinction can be made that some ebikes do not require pedaling and are therefore motorcycles, by extension it is equally valid to say that ALL ebikes must have pedals so all ebikes are bikes. The truth is really somewhere in-between. Not sure how important that is to a shower thought though.
eBikes require pedaling. I don’t know what you had, but it wasn’t an eBike.
not exactly, a bunch of those Chinese DUI scooters have pedals, but they don’t do anything.
DUI?
Depends on the juridictions. Some countries make pedaling mandatory (mine does), other don’t.
eBikes requiring pedaling is mostly just a software limitation - not a hardware one. I can’t quite see how it stops being an eBike after you disable this limitation.
Can we use the same logic for motorscooters?
I’m a bit triggered by this, so let me apologize in advance for the incoming rant.
You might be kind of right etymologically, but bikes, e-bikes, motorcycles, and likely in the near future e-motos, are specific things defined by law. The confusion between these vehicle classes is causing harm.
An e-bike is a pedal powered bicycle with an electric motor that assists the rider while pedalling up to 25km/h. You might be able to switch modes between more assistance and less assistance but there is no throttle.
If you purchase a cheap walmart / k-mart bike, swap the rear wheel with a powered hub from alibaba and strap on a battery from temu, that’s not an e-bike. They have a throttle and no limiter and in most cases can propel a 12 year old idiot at 50km/h but some times more than 70km/h. This is not an e-bike and more accurately described as an unregulated electric motorbike.
The frame isn’t built for this kind of stress, and the riders often have no capacity to understand the danger they’re imposing on themselves and others - zipping past kids playing and so on.
It’s an emerging disaster in Australia and I imagine other places as well. It’s turning the population against e-bikes when they’re not the problem.
We urgently need more appropriate legislation drafted to clearly define the classes of vehicle, and we need police with the right skills and equipment to enforce those laws.
There are also fully electric, battery powered, full-on, full-size motorcycles, like those by Zero.
There are also … I don’t even know what you call these, mini-bikes? Mini-motorcycles?
Like the Honda Grom:
https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/minimoto/grom
Which, as you can see, are pretty dang close to the same size as some E-Bikes.
Which one is street legal, where?
What exactly is each of these things categorized as, legally, colloquially?
… who the fuck knows!, basically.
Your statement is only partially true. In Florida, where I live, yes Florida, I know . . .there are three classes of ebikes. Class 3 ebikes must have pedals but can have a throttle and can operate without pedaling. By law, it IS still an ebike. So I believe it comes down to jurisdiction.
The rest of what you said is pretty much true and it’s a problem here too. I absolutely love riding my ebike. Mine has gears and is every bit a bike. For me the assist helps with hills (yes we have a few small ones here) and mostly wind. But it also serves another purpose. Making the ride either easier since I’m getting older or faster means I’m more likely to use the bike than a normal bike. I believe for these reasons I actually get MORE exercise with my ebike than my normal bike, at least until someone hits me with a car. So yeah, these guys with their over-powered “ebikes” are going to ruin it for the rest of us by getting us banned from trails and such.
This is the correct take.
My feeling is that if it’s controlled by a throttle, then it’s a motorbike and it should be registered and require a driver’s licence to operate, and it shouldn’t be on bike paths or footpaths.
My country has this legislation and my electric scooter is technically illegal sure to it. As you control the throttle with your thumb.
Now they make really uncomfortable scooters that only power of you move your leg past a sensor as then it would be ‘kick assist’. Also those scooters cost the times the amount of regular scooters that are legal in most of Europe.
It’s s terribly bad legislation. Speed should be the main differentiator.
Yeah that’s the implication, but it’s complicated.
e-scooters are controlled by a throttle, so I think there’s a debate to be had as to whether that’s a defining factor.
IMO the throttle is less critical than speed limiting. Anything you can pilot without a license should be restricted to 25km/h.
The problem is these limitations can easily be removed.
That’s why I say it really needs proper policing. You need cops on bikes, and some kind of strategy to establish whether a bike is compliant.
My bro in Berlin mentioned that infrequently the police will see up a rolling road device to stop ebikes, electric scooters etc (anything that by law is speed restricted).
They do it on a one way road where you can’t see them, with police at the top end to stop anyone that’s clearly seen and turned around to avoid it
Yeah I’ve seen photos of something like this. The one I saw was UK police I think.
This might work in high traffic areas but where I am there just isn’t enough people on bikes to set up something like this.
If the po-po stop a kid on a bike they believe is illegally modified, just confiscate and impound it where it can be assessed.
No one cares if a bike can propel you 3km/h over the limit because you changed the tyre diameter. Even if you updated the software to remove the limiter, that’s not really going to make much difference to safety if I’m honest. It’s the bikes with throttles and big hub motors that spin you up to 20 or 30km/h over the limit that are the problem.
Yup, agreed. I’m out in the sticks too, years back I tried to commute the 17 or so miles each way on a gravel bike with a conversion but keeping legal with a 250w motor it just didn’t do anything as there was no stop:starting and I was generally travelling at over the 15.5mph limit so just carrying extra weight.
Not sure why I mention as it’s a use case error on my part but I do wish I’d got a meatier motor, derestricted it and taken my chances.
Yeah I have a big heavy cannondale cargowagen.
It’s a long tail, so both my kids can sit on the back. System weight is probably 150kg with all three of us on board. By the time we wind up to 25km/h the torque provided by the motor is pretty minimal honestly.
It’s comfortable at 40km/h on a downhill slope.
I would’ve already figured out how to remove the limiter if I thought it would be helpful but… I just don’t really think it would make much difference.
Fatbikes, you mean? They’re no longer eBikes.
OP has made this quite clear. Do y’all read?
No, I mean ebikes. I made no reference to fat bikes. An ebike is legally allowed on the roads of most of Europe (this includes fat bikes) providing they meet certain criteria. That includes speed and power restrictions. Where they exceed those that are illegal and the authorities are making efforts to impound them.
Your definition is just yours - I see ebikes doing 35mph+ on the sidewalk all the time.
How do I know they’re going that fast? Because that’s how fast I’m going on the street, and I’m not passing them.
Sorry you may not have understood me correctly.
In Australia and most other jurisdictions an “e-bike” is defined by law as a bike with pedal assist up to 25km/h.
If a bike has an electric motor which is propelling it faster than that, then it is by definition not an e-bike. It’s most likely an unregulated electric motorbike, or e-moto. They’re incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.
In Australia and most other jurisdictions an “e-bike” is defined by law as a bike with pedal assist up to 25km/h.
I’m pretty sure they’re intentionally conflating them to either downplay the risks of unregulated electric motorcycles, or as some odd kind of anti-bike push, depending on the person making the argument.
The news is constantly bemoaning the dangers of e-bikes, while actually talking about motorcycles, too many times for it to be accidental.
I think it’s just a news story that the people who watch news (boomers) like to hear as it confirms their world view.
No, you’re not.
Yeah the entire nomenclature does a terrible job of differentiating what really matters in vehicle type as a law regulation category. As far as i can see the main factors should be:
- Number of wheels
- Size dimensions
- Weight
- Top speed
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a kid riding an actual e-bike, they are never pedaling when I see them …
Me neither. There’s probably several reasons you wouldn’t buy a child a proper e-bike.
Mostly just the cost I guess. A proper e-bike is twice the cost of a home made e-whatever. Also less fun than their friend’s e-whatevers.
I’ve been following the surron and talaria bikes. These are electric dirt motorcycle. Half the vidoes I’ve seen are ppl riding them on the street. They’ve gotten so fast. They write all over their websites its for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. I want one so bad. Im sure if I ride them slowly on the sidewalk for my commute. I shouldn’t get pulled over.
Depending on where you are you might be able to get a road legal one. Talaria and Surron have both sold road legal versions of some of their models here in Australia, I believe they’ve also done so in the UK and I did read something about some US states letting you register them once appropriate lights are installed.
Of course this does require you to treat them as a motorbike and keep off footpaths, have the appropriate licence, etc. Once you’ve got the licence you can ride other motorbikes as well though so I don’t see this as a downside (it’s an enjoyable method of transport and more people should do it).
I’m at the uncool end of that trend in the UK. I dumped my car 4yrs back and got an electric vespa-shaped vehicle. I already had my full bike licence which helped make it an easy decision but even in our weather really enjoyable and nsanely cheap motoring
The confusion between these things is causing harm
Seems like one possible solution should be calling motorcycles enginecycles so there’s no confusion.
Changing the name of an existing system is a non-starter. That’s why the new entry is called something else: ebike.
I think this would generate a lot of confusion.
Enginecycles? If you specifically refer to internal combustion engine (ICE) then it’d make sense to call them icecycles. It sounds weird, maybe icicles?
But seriously EU has a definition of what an ebike is, it’s not just a bicycle with motor, there’s max allowed power, max assistance level, and importantly it should only assist when pedalling. Anything beyond that, yes, is classified as a motorbike.
