- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
Storms Helene and Milton have triggered rise of misinformation stoked by Trump and fellow Republicans
Meteorologists tracking the advance of Hurricane Milton have been targeted by a deluge of conspiracy theories that they were controlling the weather, abuse and even death threats, amid what they say is an unprecedented surge in misinformation as two major hurricanes have hit the US.
A series of falsehoods and threats have swirled in the two weeks since Hurricane Helene tore through six states causing several hundred deaths, followed by Milton crashing into Florida on Wednesday.
The extent of the misinformation, which has been stoked by Donald Trump and his followers, has been such that it has stymied the ability to help hurricane-hit communities, according to the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema).
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Killing education is definitely a big part of it, but controlling every news source in huge areas and pumping outright lies and disinformation 24/7 can eventually break down anyone living in that environment.
These people desperately cling to hierarchy. Bad people go to jail, good people don’t.
These people never hear about Trump being bad, and only see him slip though the law effortlessly.
All they see is Trump being innocent and not getting in trouble at all, ever, for anything. Half of all politics and nearly all Media hide or obfuscate Trump’s insanity and incompetence.
So many voters see a president everyone they know and talk to adores, getting dragged by Democrats to no effect.
“If he was guilty he’d be in Jail, but since he’s not in jail Democrats must be liars and everything Republicans say about him is true.”
Easy, thoughtless conclusions that reinforce their worldview and solidify them as supremely correct.
Now, they’ll certainly move the goalposts once he is in Jail, because they will also never admit they were wrong about anything because if they’re wrong about Trump, they’re wrong about their entire worldview and that’s something they are not mentally able to do.
Yet they’re the same group that will accuse Russia, China and a whole bunch of other countries of lying to their citizens and controlling them with propaganda.
There’s a long history of Americans and other Westerners thinking it’s all those other countries that do propaganda. Meanwhile, the less propaganda you see, the more effectively the propaganda is working on you. Americans are some of the most propagandized people in the world.
No, the same group will praise Russia for being strong and their citizens being in line, and will say something incredibly racist about China. These people aren’t informed enough to have opinions about the police-states of other countries, and the talking heads at Fox News don’t vomit one into their mouths.
They’re not wrong with that bit though.
Just another simple answer why they think people that should agree with them don’t.
Just don’t look to hard into it. Come up with or be told an easy answer and get on with the day.
People are horribly simple things for being so complicated as a whole.
The damage Rupert Murdoch did to public discourse and society in general – not just in the US, but in the UK, Australia, and elsewhere – will take generations to recover from. That man was a cancer on all of us, and it seems his son is happily taking up the mantle.
It’s sad how true this rings.
And I’m not sure how much other people understand about how thick the bubble is that they’ve been submerged into.
I think its a very specific kind of person myself. Noy necessarily stupid, although many of them are.
To me, the person they target the best is both A) people who are easy to wind up and B) the kind who’ll, despite even knowing they know nothing about a given subject, will, if they hear something they just don’t like, will declare it to be bullshit and will never, ever back down from that regardless.
Killing education is definitely a big part of it, but controlling every news source in huge areas and pumping outright lies and disinformation 24/7 can eventually break down anyone living in that environment.
“From long exposure to tv equipment those unlucky, who were left without intellect, will be on your side”
Nah. That’s bullshit. You don’t have to be a high school graduate to discern fact from fiction here. The issue is much deeper and broader. Anything the government does, the Democrat government does, is bad because they’re out for you. You need to dig deeper in to why these people are falling prey to the brainwashing of the far right extremism and conspiracy theories. A lot of these people are very well educated. Fear of the unknown is far more powerful than a college degree. I’m not knowledgable enough on the subject but I’m sure a handful of books have been written about how people fell for Hitler’s regime.
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From my experience, it seems to me that 99.9% of people commenting on the internet lack critical thinking. Looking at Reddit in particular, it’s the comments that are the most outlandish or “popular” and often having little or nothing to do with the story they’re commenting on that are risen to the top. No one cares about the actual news. They’re engaged with headlines and chit chat. If the story takes a turn, if it no longer “supports their narrative”, they turn tail and move on to the next thing to fume over.
We’re generally focused on the maga crowd in the context of this story but the truth is that we are all subject to and fooled by misleading content. And when you, as an actual intelligent person with actual critical thinking skills, or just someone who read the article, tries to call attention to the fact that a headline is misleading or outright wrong, you get downvoted. So, why is that the case?
Also, fwiw, I have a shitty education, I’m not very smart, but I believe I have better critical thinking skills than the majority of people.
the truth is that we are all subject to and fooled by misleading content.
A perfect example of this is that recent claim that Geico stopped providing insurance for the Tesla “Cybertruck.” Tons of people, including many here on Lemmy, were quick to believe and share this story. A handful of users pointed out that the source couldn’t be verified, but those comments were drowned out by all the “Ha, take that, Musk!” comments.
It just goes to show that everyone is vulnerable to misinformation. If we want to claim to be well-informed, we have to question everything - even (or especially) the stories that reinforce our existing beliefs.
Well, this is interesting. I did come across that story but wasn’t interested enough to question it. Other than the larger point you’re making, I couldn’t care less. However, reading the Snopes article, the only evidence to the contrary is “A Geico corporate spokesperson told Snopes via email that the company has “coverage available nationwide for the Tesla Cybertruck.”” which feels a little flimsy to me. It would be nice if they’d post something on their site or socials to confirm.
So some unknown person makes an unsubstantiated claim on Xitter. A recognized and mostly respected fact checker, Snopes, picks it up and contacts Geico where one of their agents denies it.
It’s abundantly clear the original claim was a fabrication, likely meant to feed the anti-elon crowd, so why are you assigning the same credibility to both sides? How does some unknown person on Xitter have anywhere close to the same credibility as both Snopes and Geico?
This is precisely what’s happening in the Conservative circles. They’re being presented with stories that are consistent with their world view so they don’t question it but they rarely see the retraction of a story that was dis-proven. If they do see the retraction they ignore or downplay it, often by requiring some higher standard of proof.
So much of the “news”, regardless of the topic, is a jenga tower of partial truths, misdirections, and outright lies.
Geico has not said anything publicly, one way or the other. I would generally lean towards believing Snopes but, with such little evidence other than “someone told us otherwise”, I could very easily see this being retracted. I mean, they could at least mention the name of the “corporate spokesperson”.
I think we should all be more skeptical of everything we read. It’s not at all rare for a reputable organization to retract a statement, as you’ve suggested yourself.
It just goes to show that everyone is vulnerable to misinformation. If we want to claim to be well-informed, we have to question everything - even (or especially) the stories that reinforce our existing beliefs.
The beliefs we hold by analysing information may not be the actual state. The only thing a blank slate logical mind can do is that to think a bit, verify multiple sources and get to a conclusion. Multiple sources points to different views having some reasonable practicality. Blank Slate refers to a neutral unbiased mindset.
Looking at Reddit in particular, it’s the comments that are the most outlandish or “popular” and often having little or nothing to do with the story they’re commenting on that are risen to the top.
Reddit is infested with bots, especially on the larger subs. If things are at the top, it’s because someone paid for bots to get it there.
A lot of people posting online have multiple accounts (so you’re seeing the same person’s opinion over and over) or are bots. And a large amount of people are also literal teenagers, who can’t have much of a nuanced opinion because they don’t know much. If you really really want better discussion, you have to find small niche forums around your personal interests. One of my favorite forums to lurk is the Ray Peat forum (biochemistry), the users are likely mostly unique because they have to pay to have an account, and it’s noticeable how distinct everyone is. They also tend to argue a bit which is funny and interesting to me (“That’s not very Ray Peat of you”). I am convinced going back to old internet style individual forums is the best way to make sure you are speaking with real people.
Any larger social media like Twitter, Lemmy, etc, will be subject to more capitalism and advertising and spam, so yeah, you’ll feel frustrated and alone because it’s like you’re talking to an animatronic.
Unfortunately, I am not sure how to solve this with journalism and current events. There are likely journalists on Telegram and very secured channels networking, as well as more basic forums with news reporting. However, I’m not sure of any specifically that I could link.
You need to dig deeper in to why these people are falling prey to the brainwashing of the far right extremism and conspiracy theories
Why is it my job to try harder to understand them rather than their job to stop being such buffoons?
Because if you just keep calling them buffoons without giving a flying fuck about them, you are responsible for the divide. If you believe you’re the more intelligent person, if you believe you are right, you have an obligation to listen to them and help them out of their mess. We have all been brainwashed for generations by corporate and government interests. None of us have a clear mind. We should all be working together and embracing each other in spite of our differences to rise up against our oppressors. Frankly, your question sounds just as stupid as they do. You can answer for yourself why you may or may not be interested being a helpful empathetic soul.
You seem to be under the impression that empathy and rationality will break through the divide and reach them. Why? My experiences over the last decade tell me that isn’t remotely true. You make it sound like a noble goal, and maybe it is, but I don’t think it’s practical or realistic in any sense of those words.
They’ve abandoned reality in favor of delusion. You can’t reach someone in that state of mind because they immediately label you as an other and stop listening. Call that judgment elitist if you like but I don’t think it changes the truthfulness of the statement.
Most everyone has abandoned reality in favor of delusion. That’s the point. Everyone sees the world from their own perspective, or the perspective of their bubble or tribe or religion.
“The algorithm” mostly shows me left-leaning news. Aside from major news orgs like AP, any other source of information is pushing a narrative. They’re twisting the words of presidents, former presidents, other news persons, etc. to make it seem a certain way. Video clips are cut short or taken out of context. Headlines are grossly misleading. A minor inconsequential event or statement is flipped on social media to be today’s trending topic - which may very well sway an election. The entire world is flooded with lies targeting everyone, regardless of your politics.
Pushing people away because you disagree with them, or because you think they’re “crazy”, only fortifies the establishment of their beliefs among others. You’re putting them in a corner where they can crowd together and commiserate about being called crazy while they point at you and eye you up as the enemy.
People are afraid. They’re struggling to get by. They’re desperate for someone to listen to them and provide salvation.
We all need to recognize we’re being manipulated. Everyone is susceptible to mistruths, regardless of your education. We need to be more curious and empathetic and accept we may be wrong about something and that our perspective is not the only perspective that matters.
Yeah, sure, let’s take a moment to really listen to the people who are sending death threats to fucking meteorologists.
That’s one of the weirder “BoTh sIdEs” takes I’ve seen in a while. If left leaning news and voters were at all comparable in terms of misinformation you would have a point but the difference is orders of magnitude apart so it just seems like you’re trying to equate two vastly different things.
Everything is a conspiracy when you don’t know how anything works.
-Conservatives hate FEMA and want it dismantled.
-Conservatives hate the National Weather Service and want it dismantled.
-Conservatives hate climate science and want it to be silenced.
-Conservatives now also hate meteorologists.
How 'bout we compromise. Let conservative states be opted out of all of these things by default. Bundle these services into an opt-in government program called “Obama and Hillary’s Woke Weather Service”. They can opt in by calling 1-800-4 Pelosi. If all this stuff is just woke liberal propaganda, then they shouldn’t mind this at all. They should be thrilled.
Let them find out about storms and let them deal with those storms without all of our woke liberal interference. Let them pray and let their God sort them out. In this way, they get everything they are demanding so they can stop whining like a bunch of little bitches all the time. When they have disasters, we can save some of our hard-earned money and just toss them a roll of paper towels like their dear leader likes to do.
Honestly it would be funny to see Biden do some of this. He only has a few months left and can do whatever because of the supreme court. He could just go on TV an be like: “You know what? The conspiracies are true. We’re gonna turn off the doppler radars in southern states. No more flying. No more weather forecast. We’re going to ban farm laborers to come harvest your crops. The unpredicted weather is gonna ruin the crops anyways. We’re going to stop FEMA from giving aid in your republican states. Communism is unacceptable. We’re gonna ban fossil fuel in the south because that drives the weather crazy. No more cars. Enjoy the 1800s. Bye”
can do whatever because of the supreme court
No he can’t, because he’s biden/democrat. The supreme court made it particularly clear that they get to be the arbiters of what is allowed. They are going to allow everything if the president is republican, and deny everything otherwise.
He can just murder the Supreme Court first. He’s effectively supreme dictator.
Hey – I live here and can move but a lot of people are impoverished and can’t. Feels wrong to collectively turn the back to them
To those who disagree with the above:
- Moving is damn expensive.
- Don’t forget that the Republicans are working hard to prevent legitimate voters from voting, namely anyone who is more likely to support NOAA, NHC, climate science, education, FEMA, etc.
opt-in government program
Sounds like they’re welcome to swallow their pride anytime in their plan
They have forgotten we grouped up and share for the betterment of our species, not just ourselves.
They have forgotten what it’s like to be without any support cause they have felt unsupported.
Its easy to feel invulnerable and capable when you still haven’t been tested.
I pity them even though I don’t want to give them money either.
There was some maga posts who wanted to shoot up weather machines and people agreeing with it in the comments.
Conservatives can literally already choose not to consume or make decisions based on information from NOAA.
We can do better than that. We can make the data for their affected regions available only by logging into a system when their state has opted in. They don’t want NOAA to exist, so there’s no reason to bother them with information they don’t want imposed upon them.
I would send the crying shit stain loser MAGATs cheeseburgers and Diet Cokes. Do not waste a good tree product on them.
In response to that, we could have.
-Progressives hate MAGA and want it dismantled.
-Progressives hate the National Rifle Association and want it dismantled.
-Progressives hate the Greed Over People and want it to be silenced.
-Progressives now also hate the Heritage Foundation.
All the things conservatives hate are non partisan services to humanity whereas the things you named are blights upon our nation.
I mean, yes?
It’s nice to put myself in the other person’s shoes like this every once in a while to double check that holy shit I have NOT been tricked into supporting the baddies.
(Relatively speaking, of course)
If you live in the south east and you are repeating conspiracy theories about the hurricane. May you rot in hell.
If you
live in the south east and youare repeating conspiracy theoriesabout the hurricane. May you rot in hell.MK Ultra and Area 51 were a conspiracy theories… Until they were formally acknowledged.
And my burrito wasn’t poop until I ate it. What’s your point?
If you
live in the south east and youarerepeating conspiracy theories about the hurricane. May you rot in hell.
They may actually rot in hell when they refuse to evacuate for the next major hurricane.
Thoughts and prayers?
This is absolutely baffling being from practically any other English speaking country.
I mean, we have our share of crazies, but they’re a tiny proportion.
It’s one thing to doubt the well established climate science (very frustrating), but it’s another thing to actually believe humans can precisely control the weather.
It’s extremely troubling knowing these people exist, and can vote in the most powerful country on earth.
😬
Something, something if you believe in things without evidence (religion) it’s not actually that surprising. And we (Australia) are much less religious than you. Though, this is certainly my bias talking.
This is relatively unique to the US because there IS a conspiracy. And it’s orchestrated by an unorganized, disconnected cabal of wealthy elite… conservatives, who have for decades advanced a remarkable campaign of anti-intellectualism. The noted scholar Donald J. Trump eloquently described their aims when he spoke about how they “love the uneducated.”
The Heritage Foundation is anything but unorganized.
Even being in the US, it is just as baffling, yet it is also somehow completely believable because some of us get to see it up close.
It’s insane knee-jerk team sports by people who tend to not get affected by certain social issues.
we have our share of crazies, but they’re a tiny proportion.
Canada shambles into chat, points depressingly at Pierre “PeePee” Polivere and our CPC and PPC parties, then walks back out shaking it’s head
Oh I’m not saying they’re not loud, or don’t exist (I can only speak directly on my perceptions in Australia though). Additionally, there are also a much larger group of people who I think are greedy, or mislead (in my opinion), but the straight up conspiracy theorist crazies?
I think it’s not a stretch to say that’s more mainstream in the USA, and I cannot pinpoint an obvious reason at a cursory look. Even if the education system is as bad as claimed, surely, the God fearing wouldn’t believe the democrats can control the wrath of said god.
But yeah, things sure are getting wild in the rest of the anglosphere too haha, so touche
I mean cloud seeding has been happening for a very long time. I first heard of it as a story about a dude in the '50’s pissed the ski season sucked flew up and just dumped dry ice at a lower-ish Altitude somewhere up in the ADKs and sure as shit it works… under very specific conditions and nothing like how the mad skier did it.
It’s honestly not that baffling of a jump from cloud seeding to hurricane inseminating when you put it side by side with shit like flat earthers, Christianity, Tom Brady winning 7 rings deflating footballs, aliens building ancient architecture, the music city miracle wasn’t a forward lateral, Brett Hull’s skate wasnt in the goal crease for the 99 Stanley Cup winning goal, government using vaccines to drug the public rather than just putting drugs in toilet paper for 1/1billionth the cost and 100% distribution efficiency… etc. (Totally fucked myself by throwing a blanket over all of Christianity instead of itemizing shit like eating meat on Friday and humans have been around for only 2000 years lol)
Death threats to meteorologists - as one does.
Does anyone but me think that’s simply insane?
I thought I was past being shocked by things like this, but it still shocked me,
We are experiencing a bizarre confluence of terrible things. Large numbers of people have checked out from reality, which is bad. Meanwhile, more and more people are willing to resort to extreme violence toward anyone who disagrees with them, which is worse. The combination is incredibly destructive.
The irony
Of course it’s insane! To threaten these absolute gods who wield the power of nature (and also accept part time work explaining their plots on television.)
Is their plan to shoot someone who can summon hurricanes?
I see the Kremlin has been hard at work, spreading chaos just before the election, the same way they do every time.
The Kremlin may have had to work hard in 2015-2016, but I bet they don’t need to work so hard now that MAGA has become self-sustaining. No doubt they’re doing their bit, but these days they have more help than ever from inside the USA.
We are all going to die
And thank God for that. The only things that live forever are cancers.
I crave the afterlife
I kept trying to articulate my reaction but this is about the best it gets. Oh humanity.
What’s going to happen if (when?) a meteorologist actually gets murdered over this?
If I were a meteorologist, I would refuse to go on the air after that. Could you blame any of them for wanting to preserve their own lies? Which will inevitably lead to more people getting killed in weather events.
This is so fucked up.
It’s anti-vaxx all over again. I knew these people were insane and stupid, but still, “anti-meteorology” wasn’t on my bingo card.
Except worse, because I know some meteorologists from my time working in local TV. Doctors get into medicine much of the time because they want to help people. In my experience, meteorologists get into it because they think the weather is really fucking cool and they love telling people about it. That’s a much smaller incentive to keep doing what you do when your life could be in danger. At that point, and again I’m just speaking for me, meteorology would become a hobby.
This has already played out exactly as you’re predicting: The Weatherman Who Tried to Bring Climate Science to a Red State
In 2021, Chris Gloninger, a television weatherman in Boston with a passion for climate science, was approached with an intriguing prospect. Would he consider a job as chief meteorologist at a television station in Des Moines?
It was a smaller market, and talk of global warming would be challenging in a politically conservative state. But research from 2020 showed that most Iowans were interested in news about climate change, and the state was a leader in wind energy. Mr. Gloninger’s weather forecasts could be a breakthrough.
He quit after death threats.
And that’s just threats. If/when one gets murdered, it won’t matter if it’s a red state or a blue state. They’ll all consider their lives at risk. In an occupation that, unless you’re a storm chaser, is not one where the person doing it thinks is going to be an issue.
Once they became anti-librarian, anything is possible.
I know you meant lives not lies, but it’s an interesting typo
Ah fuck, yeah I did.
We should just stop any weather predictions for the South.
Let it all be God’s surprise to them, and if a surprise hurricane comes up and knocks them on their ass, well, God works in mysterious ways.
Or not because there are plenty of good people in the South who are worried about these threats and worried about climate change and try to get politicians who are also worried about climate change into office so they can do something about it. Those people are in the minority, but they still exist.
Also, plenty of children.
As someone who escaped, we should set up funds to let decent people leave for civilized places.
I simply do not consider the south redeemable at this point, we’ve given them 150 years and it’s just been a cancer on the rest of the country.
I just saw someone on Facebook saying the aurora being bigger than usual was caused by the weather radars.
I mean ignoring the fact that the aurora has gone through phases for all of recorded history, the amount of energy it would take to generate that is enormous. Do they think we’ve launched a bunch of nuclear power plants into orbit to power these things? Or maybe the giant nuclear power plant in the sky might be the real reason?
No, they just don’t understand the scale of things because they’re used to their small town thinking. Just like they don’t understand how much a billion dollars is and why one persons shouldn’t be allowed to have that much while others have none.
Do they think
no.
We need to stop pretending this is due to a lack of education or critical thinking. Sure, that’s true for some, but I’m betting the vast majority of these conspiracy theories are spread by people that know that they are lies and don’t care. Evil Russian propaganda bots aren’t a great explanation for the totality of the phenomena. People say outrageous things because it gets them clicks on the internet and hurts the “other team”.
We saw it recently with the lady lying about hatian immigrants eating cats - link. She didn’t care how true it was - only that it hurt the other team. They have it comin’, anyway, is their perspective when they’re saying these things.
You have to love conspiracy theories that imply that humanity is a Kardashev 2 civilization.
Why is Trump allowed to keep spreading this unethical horseshit?
The rulers welcome any culture war distractions to take the masses’ eyes off the ongoing class war we have been losing for generations.
All of my this. Divide and conquer
The horrible horrible truth is – because they want it https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/
Look up the John Stewart bit from earlier in this election where he shows clips of the same question verbatim being asked to politicians. They first clip of each one was them being asked at a podium or town hall then the very same question is asked to the same politician in a court room and you can guess the results. 100% of the clips showed the complete opposite answers being given by the politician to the public vs in the court room.
If Milton had stayed Cat 5, this could have been a self-solving problem.
Except not all the idiots lived in the path of Milton, or even where hurricanes go at all. I can’t explain why the presence of hurricanes has become yet another idiotic political issue, but the MAGA morons are latching on to it.
If you know that hurricanes come from warm waters and climate change has been making the water warmer, it makes sense why we’ve had back to back dangerous hurricanes. Climate change is completely false in MAGA world, but the amount and intensity of hurricanes has been increasing. So in MAGA world they need to answer why and they need to fill the climate change void. Since they are hitting red states in an election year, must be the Democrats controlling them.
I’m a Republican who Does Her Own Research and it’s OBVIOUS that these WEATHERMEN are causing our Problems and NOT the Billionaires who gave our Supreme Court Justices MILLIONS in Gifts and Vacations! All this Pollution IS LEGAL!
Good news! The damage is reversible, we just need to lower carbon emissions to pre industrial levels! We can band together to defeat the evil weather man!
I don’t want to live on this planet - in this star system anymore.
When reality is too hard these people will always make up a new one and retreat into conspiracies to help them cope.
What, you want us to help save the planet? But that would mean some sacrifices… No, the hurricanes are caused by the libruls and their evil weather machines, not us. Next. Meteorologists are just the scapegoats in their collective delusions.
