- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
Google is developing a Terminal app for Android that’ll let you run Linux apps. It’ll download and run Debian in a VM for you.
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Engineers at Google started work on a new Terminal app for Android a couple of weeks ago. This Terminal app is part of the Android Virtualization Framework (AVF) and contains a WebView that connects to a Linux virtual machine via a local IP address, allowing you to run Linux commands from the Android host. Initially, you had to manually enable this Terminal app using a shell command and then configure the Linux VM yourself. However, in recent days, Google began work on integrating the Terminal app into Android as well as turning it into an all-in-one app for running a Linux distro in a VM.
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Google is still working on improving the Terminal app as well as AVF before shipping this feature. AVF already supports graphics and some input options, but it’s preparing to add support for backing up and restoring snapshots, nested virtualization, and devices with an x86_64 architecture. It’s also preparing to add some settings pages to the Terminal app, which is pretty barebones right now apart from a menu to copy the IP address and stop the existing VM instance. The settings pages will let you resize the disk, configure port forwarding, and potentially recover partitions.
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If you’re wondering why you’d want to run Linux apps on Android, then this feature is probably not for you. Google added Linux support to Chrome OS so developers with Chromebooks can run Linux apps that are useful for development. For example, Linux support on Chrome OS allows developers to run the Linux version of Android Studio, the recommended IDE for Android app development, on Chromebooks. It also lets them run Linux command line tools safely and securely in a container.
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I want a Linux phone capable of running android apps
Irrelevant but the embed thumbnail terrifies me. why is the android fuzzy
Winter is coming
Smells like they might be preparing to make their own portable console running Android.
We already have termux for that, and on a rooted device you could do pretty much anything. This is pointless
Yeah but I’m unwilling to root my device, so hopefully this will allow me to do some cool stuff too.
Interesting… but well… Android isn’t rooted, so will it use chroot or something like that? Or it will use a whole another kernel, complete VM?
Well, the summary pasted in the post mentions “VM” about a dozen times
That’s a bad move of Google, this has no reason at all!
Chroot/docker will use a more practical way to run Linux, as Android is just a Linux distro, why bother with running a whole another kernel!
I’ve never tried it myself, but I think you can run full Linux VMs on Pixel phones already. A quick search brings up https://www.xda-developers.com/nestbox-hands-on/
Anyone have experience with this or similar options? Personally I’ve never used anything more advanced than Termux (which is lean and super cool, but not a full-blown VM).
You can pretty much chroot into a full debian installation, and even make kernel calls higher than that natively supported by your phone through
proot. It’s a weird time to be alive.
Much more appealing to me is running Android apps on Linux officially. I don’t want to use Android as my main system, but I sure as heck would love to have one or two Android apps available on my Linux Machines.
wayDroid does let you do that, in a fairly lightweight way (uses Linux namespaces iirc, similar to lxc.
It’s still not full native, which would be even nicer. I play droidfish on my Linux machines using it.
I’m glad it worked for you, it borked the fuck out of my system 🤣
It also borked the eff out of my system too, and I’m still seeing traces of its lefotver desktop files after uninstallation
)
This seems as much about converging Android and ChromeOS as anything.
does this mean more steam support for android ?
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This could be really interesting. I don’t personally see a use case for me to run Linux apps on Android. I could see myself running android apps on Linux though. Pretty happy to see this.
Cool and all but id rather run android apps on a linux phone.
You can already, Waydroid exists
I think you misread. They want a Linux phone, not a container for android apps on Linux Desktop. Also, yeah there are very limited options to do this, but most of us can’t yet.
Linux phones do exist, I was saying that you could use Waydroid on those devices (although you can also use it on Linux Desktop), such as postmarketOS on eg a Fairphone 5.
Okay but they only run on pretty weak(usually because it has to be old) hardware. We need a linux flagship phone.
Fairphone 5 isn’t old. It’s a fairly recent, midrange phone
As an American, I absolutely would choose a Fairphone if it wasn’t only available through that third party distributor.
Would it be like a Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) but then for Android?
Termux has been a thing for years.
Yeah but I bet google’s one will have lots of cool features like being harder to use and not supporting becoming root and requiring google play services for no discernable reason
And will be cancelled in 18 months with 2 weeks notice.
If it’s anything like ChromeOS, it’ll be a VM where you can do whatever you want, within that VM.
Termux recently got moved off of the play store (kinda), and is now only available on f-droid/github, because Google was further locking down what they allowed on their store.
And in addition to that, they recently added a restriction in later versions of Android: “Child process limit”. Although this limit used to not there, when enabled, it prevents users from truly running arbitrary linux programs, like via termux.
Although the child process limit can still be disabled in developer options, it doesn’t bode well for how flexible base android in the future will be, since many times corpos like Google move stuff into the “secret” options before eventually removing that dial all together.
TLDR: Termux has been, and is a thing… for now.
Also, I want to shout out winlator. It uses a linux proot, similator to termux, and has box64 and wine inside that proot that people can use to play games. I tested with Gungeon, and it even has controller support and performance, which is really impressive.
winlator can run windows apps on android
Hey that sounds neat!
uses ubuntu as a base
Oh no…
MIT license
oh no
Have to install from github/no F-Droid build
oh no
Termux has been a thing for years.
Termux is not a full linux environment, you need proot (slow) or chroot (insecure) to get a full environment.
Termux doesn’t run arbitrary software. There’s a pretty large set that does but plenty doesn’t. A VM would resolve that.
Ehh it kinda does considering you can get a pretty full compiler tool chain running via termux.
Through termux you can already install a full linux distro on android. It is a little slow, but full desktop environment. Not bad if you have a phone that supports display output
Do you mean via QEMU without hardware acceleration?
I didn’t think to check how it worked, other than the graphics part is accessed via a VNC app. If you have a spare phone check out Anlinux on PlayStore or F-Droid
Anlinux
This application will allow you to run Linux on Android, by using https://f-droid.org/packages/com.termux and PRoot technology, you can even run SSH and Xfce4 Desktop Environment!!!
Features:
- NO ROOT ACCESS REQUIRED!!!
- Lots of Linux distros supported:
- Ubuntu
- Debian
- Kali
- Parrot Security OS
- Fedora
- CentOS
- openSUSE Leap
- openSUSE Tumberweed
- Arch Linux
- Black Arch
- Xfce4, Mate, LXQt, LXDE Desktop Environment Supported
- Install multiple distros without conflict
- Provide uninstallation script to fully uninstall distro
The problem with the desktops in termux is that the apps don’t work reliably.
So is termux a containerized Linux? (I haven’t looked into it yet, just on my list). I had assumed it was a VM, guess I was incorrect.
My sense was that it’s kinda like cygwin. Just natively compiled apps and a filesystem layout.
This is correct. There’s no containerization like LXC/Docker.
Termux is just prootTermux is just a shell running in the context of an app
Termux isn’t just proot, but you can install proot inside termux
It is proot based though. It is very useful but it does have disadvantages.How is ut proot based? Afaik it runs binaries built for termux and not any linux binaries. Isn’t it directly executing the files?
Maybe I’m mistaken then. I had in my head that it was proof based. However, that wouldn’t make any sense as Termux has access to the system
protogens made it :3
What is proot?
Yeah… While making users run Linux applications on a system where Google is root might be a wet dream for Google, it’s more of a nightmare for me.
I really hate the fact that the vast majority of consumers are perfectly fine with not being in full control of their appliances and that Google (and others) register everything they do.
I personally run a custom rom, even with that I find this very exciting, This should balance the Security, Perf, Convience, aspects quite nicely
The reason so many people are fine with using corporate garbage is ironically the same reason they’d be just fine using something that wasn’t that. Users can adapt and learn a system way better than most people think.
It’s the convenience angle.
I have very experienced IT friends who continue to use privacy invasive crap, knowingly because they like the convenience.
That kinda thing is a sliding scale for everyone, if my Linux machine wasn’t 90% as reliable and usable as when I was on windows I would probably still be using windows
And yet there they all are, using corporate garbage.
Yep. Because that’s the default. And the corporate garbage says that the other stuff is a worse experience.
Well, it is.
It’s a lot more work to use not-Google stuff on Android. Which I try very hard to do.
Now trying to get a family member to install and run anything not from the Play store is like pulling teeth.
Well, yeah, because most apps depend on Google services.
I thought the snapdragon Samsung rooting would be farther along than where we are now. I’m stuck with my phone until further notice s23u
I’ll just run Linux shit on…Linux
I’ll just run Linux shit on…Linux
Android is a variant of Linux, just not GNU/Linux because of not using glibc.
android just uses the kernel
android just uses the kernel
Yes and the kernel’s name is “Linux”. No other software is named “Linux”. Ask Linus Torvalds if you don’t believe me.
With diffs sometimes around 5m lines of code (in case of qcom)
With diffs sometimes around 5m lines of code (in case of qcom)
Nobody’s denying that. Many embedded distributions targeted special hardware are like that.
Lol thank you so much for the laugh
But do you know what you’re laughing at, though?
Yes. It’s funny to me when people pull the “ACK-shually what you’re referring to is not GNU…” blah blah blah
