During negotiations with the DNC and the Harris campaign, we were repeatedly told by interlocutors that Harris couldn’t meet any of our basic requests (a policy shift from Biden, a Palestinian speaker at the DNC, a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel, or even a meeting with Michigan families who lost loved ones to Israeli bombs) because of AIPAC-aligned politicians like Fetterman, who might take to TV, rile up suburban white and Jewish voters, and fracture the party’s coalition in a swing state.
That political calculus alienated a key voting bloc, although likely not large enough to have shifted the ultimate election outcomes, that should be part of a durable Democratic majority. But few will ever be held accountable for that choice.
A Fetterman staffer condemning Uncommitted for not advocating for Palestinians ‘the right way’ is like an arsonist scolding the fire department for using the wrong hose.
From a pure political science perspective, if the Democrats were a real party they would either purge themselves of Zionists or purge themselves of anti-Zionists. This coalition is objectively impossible to sustain and will make them lose any time Israel is bombing.
honestly disgusted by how meager and purely symbolic the demands made by the uncommitted movement were
as if getting every single thing on that list would have spared a single life
Imagine supporting genocide in order to win, but then losing anyway.
Voting isn’t some bargain between a thousand voting groups and one candidate. Let’s break it down.
THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES
YOU PICK THE BEST CANDIDATE
Note that ‘best’ isn’t ‘great’; nor is it ‘good’, ‘awesome’, etc. And, while there are more candidates, sometimes only two have a chance (Hi Ross Perot!). So it’s a binary choice. There has to be someone in office. You pick the least-worse one.
The unmentioned third option is “If you vote third party or don’t vote at all, you accept the consequences of a worst-case scenario”.
I’m really thinking America didn’t educate people on ‘this or that’.
Pro genocide comments like this don’t surprise me anymore. I urge you to post more like this during the upcoming elections to remind people what the Democratic Party and its base really are. Voters might be scared into voting for the Democrats again.
Sounds like US democracy with the US voting system is deeply flawed and the only moral action is to no longer engage with it. Otherwise you are expected to choose between different approaches to an ongoing genocide.
Personally I pull the lever in the trolley problem. Not pulling the lever definitely doesn’t equal washing one’s hands of the outcome.
THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES
That’s not how democracy works…
Being restricted to two candidates is just like a one-party state with an extra choice for shits and giggles.
People vote with their conscience on whatever candidate they feel represents them. And it’s THEIR business.
Anything else is NOT democracy. Nobody is entitled to your vote. That’s the one power you have.
That’s not how democracy works…
It is unfortunately how the US democracy works. Nobody around today set this system up. We simply realized how it does and doesn’t work.
Being restricted to two candidates is just like a one-party state with an extra choice for shits and giggles.
Nope. Two parties is a huge improvement over one. Three is an improvement over 2, etc.
3 > 2 > 1
The US is not, nor has it ever, been a democracy. Money decides and always decided, politics.
Not democracy.
Never has been.
No you can force a political party to abide by your wishes by showing you are willing to not vote for them.
What lesson can the Democratic party learn from this?
No you can force a political party to abide by your wishes by showing you are willing to not vote for them.
No you cannot. They don’t even know that you exist. The simple reality is that the one and only possibility for major progress is for Dems to win big and win often. When that happens, Dems will all be competing with each other to show themselves to be more progressive than the other guys.
Dems had control of the house, senate, and POTUS for Bidens first two years, and they decided to do almost nothing.
Cool that it’s the DNC’s fault. Sucks that anyone who was working towards Palestinian liberation now has to shift their attention to not getting jailed or deported.
I heard the organizers are expanding their strategy to other issues, like protesting capitalism by refusing to buy food or stopping an oil pipeline by refusing to drive to the blockade.
They were quoted as saying “These failures are already guaranteed to be someone else’s fault, and that’s the most important part.”
Cool that people making a principled stand to engage with a political party to encourage a change in policy are at fault for the leaders of that political party refusing to change policy, despite being told at multiple levels, for a multitude of reasons, including electorally, why that policy was bad.
Liberals hate democracy. Expecting to engage with a political party to affect change? Ew, just tick the box with a D next to it regardless of what they do or say. Don’t you know trying to engage with a party that doesn’t listen to its base or membership might lead to bad PR and might hurt them in an election? How could you be so inconsiderate? Your role is just to sit down and do nothing and accept whatever they say is true on MSNBC.
Sarcastic tone, but I was telling the truth there: It is the DNC’s fault. The policy and the defeat. And that fact is real cool for anyone who thinks that’s the important part.
I’m not mad about Uncommitted’s principles, and I don’t pin any moral blame on them. But I do think they have shitty tactics. This is a war. The RNC and DNC vs. us. If you have any chance to weaken your opponent, you take it. The Dems will never be your ally, so stop expecting them to.
Apologies, it came across as sarcastic but in the direction of defending DNC.
This was my thoughts all along. By condemning the genocide they would have lost more votes than gained. It sucks that politicians have to choose votes over morality (the ones that actually have morality). The system is definitely broken.
a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel
Quoting @jordanlund@lemmy.world again:
Harris stated multiple times that she wanted a cease fire and a two state solution. Polar opposite of Trumps “sweep them out and take over.”
July:
August:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
September:
October:
Every month from becoming the nominee until the election: cease fire, hostage release, two state solution.
These are not genocidal statements.
Trump?
https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d
“But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
She did, but you didn’t listen.
Are you lost?
talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words and the biden administration only talked.
So Harris said the same thing as Biden said… while Biden and Harris were complicit in genocide. And this changes anything about the post… How exactly?
Did Harris say no bombs? Did Harris draw red lines? Did Harris to concede any of the demands in the post you are trying to strawman?
stop moving the goalposts. The subject was a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel
It’s not moving goal posts. What she said isn’t credible because her own actions betray it. Politicians will say anything to get elected and LIE.
What control does the vice president have on spending by the military?
I eagerly await your comment.
Executive branch is the one that declares war. They could of put a stop to the arms policy but didn’t. Useless democrat simp, blaming voters instead of awful policy from politicians.
congress has the power to declare war
Right, and they didn’t. The executive branch has been rogue since 9/11.
All of our “wars” are just “special military operations” without congressional approval. The executive branch just goes around congress.
Given Biden’s proven medical incompetence, likely total. ‘Biden’ provided funding to Israel without congressional approval multiple times.
Lmao, what a complete non answer.
It’s a complete answer, it’s not the one you tried to bait out, but it’s a complete answer and it’s correct. You can be mad at yourself for not laying a good enough trap to get what you want, or simply for trying to defend one of the worst human beings in one of the worst political parties in the world; but you can’t be mad at getting a correct answer.
No the statement was Harris distinguising herself from Biden. You have inserted a strawman.
Furthermore you are lying because Trump also promised empty words about peace for Palestinians. Trump even invited Palestinians on stage. Something Harris refused.
What? Look at the quoted tweet. It says
a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel
And you’re calling me a liar? Lol
Trump made an equivalent call for peace, while promising he would not impede the flow of weapons, same as Harris.
I blame the voters who just flat out couldn’t be bothered. If they’d all showed and at least voted 3rd party on the president, at least the fascist wouldn’t have control of Congress.
I blame Dems for shitting on everything so hard that people made the choice to not show up.
Non-voters can’t fix what they’ve done, protest voters can’t change what’s happened. The Dems can absolutely still fix their party. There’s only one group who deserves our ire in this moment.
That is what the right wants you to do. Find anyone to blame but them.
There was a huge propaganda campaign started specifically to get the centrists and undecideds to stay home.
Every election is going to be a repeat of this. Facebook, TV, YouTube, anyone who can push content is going to forever say both sides are bad. And people will listen to them no matter how educated they are because propaganda works.
Watch for it because they’ll probably do it again: A conflict that America is only peripherally responsible for and cannot stop, being pushed as the number one issue in the next elections.
The people who say Kamala ignored their issue? You vote down ticket for democrats and push those people to support your issue. This in turn pressures the president to support your issue.
The democrats definitely will not help. They’ll produce 6 unlikeable candidates and say, “well… These are the only people who could possibly be our president. Also the primary is pointless because of superdelegates and split voting so we’ll just go ahead and pick this one before 50% of the nation has even voted.”
Shit… Sorry, I can’t stay on topic because I’m impossibly cynical at this point. I’m still voting democrat because I refuse to sit out or actively support fascism, but I’m heartbroken over the situation we’re in.
Watch for it because they’ll probably do it again: A conflict that America is only peripherally responsible for and cannot stop, being pushed as the number one issue in the next elections.
I’m glad you genocide denying dogs lost, seriously. You say propaganda works on everyone but you and then start parroting the last disgusting bullshit propaganda to defend the Democrats actively committing a genocide that they could have stopped at any moment.
You vote down ticket for democrats and push those people to support your issue.
People tried to push them, they ignored it, under the reasoning that they’d vote for them anyway.
I refuse to sit out or actively support fascism
Then you should probably stop repeating genocide denial to defend people allied when ethnofascists.
Hahahha… I can tell from the ratio that people don’t agree with me, but you’re confused as shit.
I’m not a supporter of genocide or a genocide apologist. I’m a realist. There is no way that sitting out of an election in protest, or voting republican could have stopped the genocide.
The ONLY chance anyone had was to elect a Democrat majority and push hard on issues they care about. Protest in the streets to stop the genocide.
Look where we are now. Worse genocide by far and protests in the streets but instead of one coherent request in the protest you’ve got hundreds.
Please don’t:
Destroy social security Destroy the CDC while we have bird flu Destroy Education Rob the treasury Break agreements with every allied country Break the economy Ruin transgender lives Build concentration camps Go to war with all our previous allies for Greenland Support genocide Destroy civil rights Destroy the environment
See, genocide is still on my list… In fact if these were in proper order it would be top of the list. Call it a “least you can do” option for presidency.
But instead we need to fight for all these things and we’ve got you, who, I guess sat this one out on principal, calling me names for it.
Worse genocide by far
The fuck are you talking about? Israeli occupation forces are withdrawing, aid is flowing into the Strip, and the daily bombardment has stopped. Yeah, Trump keeps saying stupid and horrible shit, but the US occupying Gaza is about as likely as annexing Greenland.
Has the bombing really stopped? I’m legit asking because the news i read doesn’t say that.
Trump just gave them 8 billion more in arms deals. The peace agreement was violated immediately. I still see reports of IDF killing random people.
But without knowing someone from there its hard to know what is real. All news sources are biased one way or the other.
