cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/1006130
This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.
The original was posted on /r/aboringdystopia by /u/Last_Salad_5080 on 2023-10-03 14:21:04.
It’s really important for folks to understand what is being talked about here, because I run into folks even here that are like “that’s a wall of text, I’m not reading that”. And that’s kind of the behavior that’s being talked about. Like, if you find yourself in “read the headline, not the story” you might be in this group they are talking about in this article that is linked. And do not let me come off high and mighty here, I absolutely have issues with this some times because I get all kinds of caught up with life and do not have enough time to maintain my reading habits. It is a complex issue on why there is this deterioration of reading skills. And I will likely say something to the effect of “Internet BAD!” but do know it is more than just that, it is just that is the easiest go-to for a “short” comment.
So that said. Nice little sample question one would see on a test that would test this is:
In Lions of Little Rock, two girls form a dangerous and clandestine friendship, that is challenged by racial segregation. Name, in chronological order, the multiple episodes of racist threats and violence and how they increased the tension of the relationship between the two girls.
It’s not a question of “Can you read the book?” It is a question of, “Did you extract information from the book? Can you connect the dots asked in the question based on the information that you read?” Lots of people who identify themselves as literate have a lot of difficulty doing these kinds of things. So we have to understand that, this is not testing if a kid can read the word “onomatopoeia”, it is testing if a person can extract useful information from written words.
All of that is different from the “eighth grade reading level” where you are typically asked things like “extrapolate what you think the underlying theme the author is trying to present.” Sixth grade reading is mostly being able to put things back in the order that you read them, picking out the descriptive terms that were in the text, and identifying what the entire point was for this particular piece of work, among other things. One does not have to really get creative here, sixth grade reading is just “in slightly finer detail” being able to regurgitate what was just read. Now to get kids ready for higher reading, there is usually questions about “do you think this person at this point was feeling happy?” That kind of stuff that relies of extrapolating meaning which is usually above the “sixth grade level reading”.
And it is indeed shocking how many people cannot do this. But in order to be shocked, I think people need to understand what is being tested here. A lot of social media does indeed condition folks to allow this level of reading to atrophy. The number of people who toss around TL;DR is really high and some of that is because it does not interest them. That of course is fine, but some of it is because 50% of the way through their brain is tired of reading text. AND THAT, is problematic. And really I can only touch on so much of the issue in this comment without it feeling like it is going on forever.
There are all kinds of assessment tests online that folks can review and see exactly the kind of questions that are being asked. The whence and wherefores on this matter and the causes for it happening are indeed complex and obviously I cannot cover them all here. But one big one, in my opinion, is education and its intersection with technology. Technology does indeed make lots of things easier for us, but some of those things that technology unburdens us from we should probably reexamine that relationship. Perhaps we need better education with technology or maybe we need less technology with that education, they both have pros and cons to them. There are not easy answers in this for the kind of background American education presents, which that is also an addressable matter in all of this.
wall of text
I’d just like to note for the record that your post wasn’t a wall of text. Not only does it have paragraphs, it is also well-structured in its information delivery and you use connectives well, constantly answering “why am I reading this sentence (or subordinate clause)” in the first couple of words. This is not only easy to do (if you’re used to it), it also takes enormous load off the reader by not having them divine erm “train of thought context”, and actually follows natural speech patterns. But it does require that your thoughts are organised, that you can write the whole thing in one go, or you will have to go back and massage everything down to size. Which brings me to
TL;DR
“I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead”.
Or, differently put: Writing skills are actually just as if not even more atrocious across the board. Another reason for tl;drs are people who are paid by word count.
It’s not a question of “Can you read the book?” It is a question of, “Did you extract information from the book? Can you connect the dots asked in the question based on the information that you read?” Lots of people who identify themselves as literate have a lot of difficulty doing these kinds of things.
I’m really sorry if this comes across as a TL;DR, but there’s a name for that. I’m positive you already know, but for the benefit of those interested, it’s called “functional illiteracy.” And it’s wild, still blows my mind to this day. Like, if you’re functionally illiterate, that doesn’t mean you don’t know how to read…it means you can read but can’t understand language written beyond the basic level. There are a lot of variables involved and I’m oversimplying a lot, but that’s it in a nutshell. It’s fucking terrifying, to be honest, especially because it’s so widespread.
Read to your kids, folks! And talk to them about it afterwards!
Even more wild that a functional illiterate was elected president of the most powerful country in the world!
Been that way since bush
A long time ago I reasoned that the poorest least educated of us would be functional illiterates for whom a separate glyph based language would be created. A smiley face does not require reading comprehension or analysis, nor does it produce a populace that asks questions.
I don’t think the landholders who run this shit want more than fifty percent literacy from the serfs who will be beholden to their grandchildren. Too many smart serfs would endanger their legacies, and too few would render the industrial collective serviced by their human capital uncompetitive.
The next few decades will be about them figuring out just how many smart motherfuckers they need, and how to keep those firecrackers too frightened to start a revolution. They’ll be minmaxing the hell out of us.
that’s a wall of text, I’m not reading that
Low-hanging fruit
can someone recap it using an emoji?
🤷♂️
I read your first paragraph then skipped the rest of whatever you’re going on about. It’s about saving your time in a world where there’s near infinite amount of content to be able to read, it’s a skill to know what’s worth reading.
I agree to some extent, but honestly the time spent on reading lemmy/reddit/Twitter/etc could almost certainly be spent on more important literature. I’m not going to pretend that a few minutes in a sea of wasted hours really makes a difference.
You’ve indirectly highlighted the biggest issue I have with referring to literacy as “x-grade reading levels”. Literacy skills stack on top of each other and, sometimes, in slightly different orders. Calling them by a grade level makes people associate these skills with certain educational levels in school when, in reality, you only learn these skills from repetition and growth. I wish there were (and maybe there are and I’m just not familiar with them) clearer distinctions for these types of skills that meant more than “x-grade” which is practically meaningless to most people and harmful for those struggling with reading and comprehension.
Hey go easy. Some of us have ADHD.
It’s not that I don’t want to read a wall of text, but simply that I’m incapable of doing so.
Hard tl;dr from me, dawg
And then this links to a picture of a headline, because who’s actually gonna read the article.
Not 54% of adults in the us, apparently.
not entirely surprised
Yeah, I’ve walked outside. I don’t need a source for this one.
I’ve spent 1 day in a Facebook philosophy group. I’m not sure there’s any hope left. If I didn’t have to be on Facebook for local call for art announcements I would run so far away.
Everyone surprised by this really baffles me. As someone who went to school here I thought it would be closer to 60%. Ever heard of “no child left behind”?
This is such a huge percentage that it has to be incorrect, right? Over half of American adults can’t really read? Or am I just vastly underestimating a ‘6th grade level’.
6th grade is what? 10 years old.
I wouldn’t expect them to be reading War and Peace, but they should be able to easily read The Hobbit or Harry Potter.
They’re not on Spot the Dog, or putting their fingers under the words as they go.
No shade at putting fingers under the words as they go, sometimes with some fonts and especially fine print it can be easy for your eye to jump up or down a line.
6th grade isn’t bad at all. It is about the same level of reading as a TV sitcom. A person with a 6th grade reading level may be limited in regards to higher education, but reading won’t be an issue in their day to day life or even most career paths. If you aren’t challenging yourself by seeking good media and active reading, it is pretty likely that you will fall to around that level.
I’d wager it’s a solid mix of both. A 6th grade level is probably marginally higher than you’re expecting it to be. However, it gets much, much worse than you’d expect in a large portion of the US.
Here’s an article with more details about the study: https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy#:~:text=by EMILY SCHMIDT | March 16%2C 2022&text=This means more than half,of a sixth-grade level.
Dr. Iris Feinberg, associate director of the Adult Literacy Research Center at Georgia State University, points to under-served communities with “print deserts,” poorly funded schools, and little internet access as being the places where the people with poor reading skills live. She also called it an inter-generational cycle of low literacy, so it’s not just a recent problem with people not wanting to read.
Why u hurt our brain with thing that not screenshot of headline or tweet
I wonder that the standard used for 6th-grade reading level is. I know that the 6th grade reading level at the beginning of the century is higher than the 6th grade reading level now.
I remember being extremely disappointed when I was in 6th grade and they had arbitrarily moved a lot of books up a reading level. There were a few in particular that I was looking forward to reading while in 5th grade that were at a 6th grade level. Then in 6th grade, I grabbed one of those books to check out but was told that I could t read it because it was now considered 7th grade and that I had to choose from the 6th grade level (which was largely the previous year’s 5th grade level).
This is infuriating. No one should be denied borrowing a book because they’re not at their “grade level”. That’s the kind of shit that contributes to people losing interest in reading from a young age.
And many adults choose not to read. It is almost as if they are connected
This is the reason the GOP exists as it does. It is the fucking idiots party.
Which is exactly the goal. They want a large number of poorly educated people who are easy to manipulate. This is why they defund schools and ban reproductive health education as their very first steps when they come to power.
Large number of poorly educated, easily manipulated people? You mean like the illegal immigrants the left is letting in in droves?
I’ve never understood this conspiracy. Illegal immigrants can’t vote. How exactly is the left supposed to benefit?
Yeah, the argument makes literally zero sense, but if you bring it up to them, it opens the door for them to talk about other batshit crazy conspiracies. Like needing tighter controls on who can vote. Which are thinly veiled attempts to limit the opposition from voting.
One time someone made an argument that semi made sense.
“It’s their children! These immigrants come in here and liberals give them jobs and welfare and put their kids in schools and give them scholarships and then the kids grow up to vote for Democrats!”
And I’m like…that’s incredible! You’re really making the Dems sound like good guys here!
None of it makes sense unless you start from a baseline of racism.
The issue is those benefits like free healthcare, scholarships, and such is that they aren’t also given to actual US citizens, we treat illegals better than our own.
Fuck off.
My ancestors and maybe yours too for that matter, were poorly educated, not by choice. They migrated here bc they were desperate and it offered hope. And now many generations later, my parents’ and all subsequent generations in the family have been college educated with many success stories.
You just don’t like brown people. Fuck off.
Our ancestors didn’t drag their children through barbed wire and didn’t demote US citizens to 2nd class by receiving free healthcare and benefits over them. They also didn’t steal to such a degree that the police gave up on enforcing the law.
My dad is at probably about 6th grade level.
My father is extremely quick, a sharp mind. He is able to articulate, but not very eloquently, can’t spell really, and or he is self conscious of it and defers to others when writing.
To his credit, he doesn’t really need any of that to live a fulfilling life, but, I wonder what would have changed if his education was better or if he got to grow up in a less broken home. How would that change my life? I’m sure I would be doing something much different than I am now. I’m not sure it even matters.
I’m thankful that my father is a kind soul who doesn’t really seem meant for this world. He taught me many important lessons in life and I wish there were more genuine people like him. Everyone seems to gravitate towards him even tho he is by all accounts an “idiot”. He’s an anarchist in purest form. I’ll miss him when he’s gone, but I carry his spark within me. <3
Read to your kids. Use big words around them.
Yeah, say things like “Oh how droll, your lexicon and command of the English language is quite lamentable. Perchance your parents taught you little and never thought to embiggen your vernacular?”
Also lmao iPhones don’t recognize that embiggen is an actual dictionary word 😂
I use giga huge word sounds hella
That’s because it’s from the simpsons.
Actually, no! The Simpsons used the word and was the reason it was actually put into the dictionary, but originally the word was used in a book from some dude in 1884 by the name of C.A. Ward.
My girlfriend accused me of being a pedophile. I said, “Hey, that’s a pretty big word for a 10-yr old.”
As much as I’d love to jump on the “stupid Americans” bandwagon, this seems to be a big problem not only in America. After the reddit exodus and before I had a good setup for lemmy, I used Facebook for a short period. Most of my stuff there is from US, UK and Norway, and the number of people in the comments who can barely put together a coherent sentance is astonishing. Far below 6th grade level by any standard.
A sentance? I wanna believe you did that on purpose.
pointedly doesn’t look at the numerous Lemmings he’s seen complain that relatively simple statements are grammatically confusing
We have people who think that ‘e-mail’ gets an s as a noun - ever - when ‘mail’ never has.
They will be confused that the sun keeps rising.
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
Ironic that there’s a grammatical error in the headline… 6th-grade levels, surely
77% of Americans write below 9th grade-levels, and hyphens are taught as an elective.
Explains a lot
It feels like a low-blow but… Yeah.
