Any moment now, the ‘don’t vote for Biden’ group will be in here telling us not to vote for Harris. And if it isn’t Harris, they’ll tell us not to vote for whoever it is.
Anything but stop the dictator and his plan to commit genocide against Latinos and queer people.
Even if Trump wasn’t going to do awful things, I can’t stand his stupid face or his stupid voice or his stupid stupidity. That’s enough to vote for someone who’ll beat him.
No. It absolutely isn’t. I was too young to vote in the 2000 election, but Gore had the same stupid face, long drawn out speech paterns, and general unlikability.
However, his policies, and his message were good. I would have voted for him despite his stupid face, because of him being the better candidate.
I FULLY understand people hating trump…but I underatand the hate because trump is a piece of shit. I get why trump is hated for his bad policies. I get why people hate having a criminal in the white house.
But to say that if a candidate were good for the position, but you hate their face and voice, I wouldn’t understand that.
Yeah but Gore did win that election. It was stolen from him. Just like Bernie won the DNC nomination and it was stolen from him. Fuck the DNC. But fuck the RNC harder.
The reason we haven’t seen it happen yet is that they weren’t prepared for this. They need to make some memes and talking points, make sure everyone is on the same page. Give it a day or so, and we’ll start seeing a strangely concerted effort against Harris.
Alright, fuck it. I’LL run. I’m 40, nobody knows me so they don’t hate me, I think Hitler was bad, and I’ll let you guys smoke weed and keep your pronouns.
And for the republicans in the room, I’m not going to send anyone to take your guns. That sounds like a bad idea, that we already saw play out in Waco TX. Nobody wants that.
And for all the cats registered as undecided parties…meow meow meow meow meow. Meow meow MEOW MEOW MEOW!!! HISSS HISSSSS HISSSSSS clickclickclickclickclickclick…purrrr purrrr purrrr purrrrr purrrrrr.
And to all the mentally crazy voters, HEYMYNAMESBOBANDIMHERETOMAKEEVERYBODYSAFEFROMTHELIZARDPEOPLEFROMEATINGOURBRAINSANDTHEGOVERNMENTPOTBELLIEDPIGSBACONVIVALEREVOLUTION!!!
I will absolutely vote whoever is opposite of trump on the ticket. But a black woman winning the rust belt? That would be wild. I’m all for it, mind you, but that would be some crazy shit.
How is she a good candidate? She stood against everything progressives stand for as a prosecutor and hasn’t apologized or clarified that she supports marijuana legalization, abolition of for-profit prisons, or disproportionately prosecuting minorities.
What the fuck are you talking about? When she was running for president in 2019, she released detailed plans about how she would legalize marijuana, abolish private prisons, and reform the carceral system.
I get that you probably weren’t aware of her evolved stance on these things, but a single google search could have shown you that you were incorrect on every single point you made.
What the fuck are you talking about? When she was running for president in 2019, she released detailed plans about how she would legalize marijuana, abolish private prisons, and reform the carceral system.
Has she done those things? (I sincerely don’t know.)
I’ve heard that she’s revised her stances, but even in 2019 there was some question regarding the sincerity of her evolving viewpoints.
We’re likely to get 8 years of her if she wins, so I think it’s entirely reasonable to want her to affirm her stances in some of these areas. We won’t be able to move any further left than she allows. Sure, she’s not Trump, and I’m going to vote for her. It would be nice to have hope she’ll do more than just move right more slowly than Trump though.
She says very little, and nothing convincing, about some of the most serious charges against her, like that she fought hard to keep innocents in prison and failed to fight hard against corrupt cops.
If elected president, Harris seems as likely as any of her Democratic rivals, and far more likely than Donald Trump, to pursue a criminal-justice-reform agenda that overlaps with policies I favor as a civil libertarian. And I do not hold it against Harris that as a municipal and state official she enforced many laws that I regard as unjust. All the candidates now running for president will, if elected, preside over the enforcement of some laws that they and I regard as unjust.
But like her rivals, the reforms that Harris would sign into law as president would depend mostly on what Democrats in Congress could get to her desk. Far more important is how she would preside over a federal legal system and bureaucracy that is prone to frequent abuses. And her record casts significant doubts about whether she can be trusted to oversee federal law enforcement, the military, intelligence agencies, the detention of foreign prisoners, and more.
I mean, she’ll have ample opportunity to expound on that. But prison reform and legalizing marijuana were platforms she ran on in 2019. I haven’t seen anything from her that would indicate she’s reversed her position since then.
Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”
Notably, the figures dropped dramatically during Harris’ tenure, from 817 marijuana-related admissions in her first year in office to 137 in her last.
She laughed because it was funny and I’m tired of people telling me it’s not. 💥 🔫
She’s been a prosecutor, senator, and now VP. She has the experience. She can speak in complete sentences. She is a neo-liberal but that was a given. All Democratic candidates since Clinton have been neo-liberals. The idea that Kamala is anti-progressive is false.
She’s an improvement over Biden. And just look at all the time, money, and effort Republicans wasted against someone who’s no longer even running. They’re flailing and trying to find something that will stick.
Most of the biden haters i know on the left are upset about his support for israel. Harris has been much more critical of the genocide. We’ll just have to see.
I didnt want to vote for biden, but was still going to vote blue no matter who. Im glad i dont have to vote for genocide anymore.
as a queer leftist (look up ag kamala’s record on gender affirming care for trans inmates for a fun time) I support her on electoral grounds- she isn’t visibly falling apart at the seams like Biden and can do the physical work of campaigning and interacting with potential voters. We can work with this.
She is also on record as having a somewhat tougher stance on Israel’s war (unlike Joe, who supported them no matter what they did). That’s my personal red-line issue so I’m glad there’s some semblance of a shift there :/
She has a really checkered record wrt trans stuff altogether. I’m concerned.
She’s better than Trump but a significant step down from Biden in terms of most of the things I care about which makes her a concerning pick, combined with the fact that she performs worse in polling (if that was the main concern). I hope I’m wrong but I’m concerned that this basically sealed the Dems’ loss.
Here is the internal polling that was released, this was before Biden resigned
Through 7/21, Biden trailed Trump 46-44 nationally; Harris was ahead 48-46. Trump is stuck at a ceiling of 46. Harris gains from 3rd party/undecided voters.
Young voters (18-34) go from Biden 44-36 (+8) to Harris 57-37 (+20)
Independents go from Trump 48-32 (+16) to Trump 49-41 (+8)
Harris picks up 7pp among Black voters and 8pp among Hispanic voters, almost all from 3rd party/undecideds
Unless they’re a cop. Then it’s the defense they go to and can never be convicted under unless we have them on video calmly shooting the handcuffed guy in the back of the head.
Well VPs traditionally will say the things the President can’t say publicly for geopolitical reasons. Harris may have been saying the things the Biden was thinking but couldn’t directly say while actively negotiating with Netanyahu. Can’t be sure but it’s a more likely scenario than her going rogue against someone on the same ticket as her.
Doesn’t matter now, but more for future reference. If a future President Harris isn’t saying what you want her to say on foreign policy issues but her VP is, you’ll know what’s up.
It would also be nice not to live on a burning planet controlled by decrepit rich psychopaths but I don’t think either of us will be getting what we want.
I’ll still vote for whatever the democrats decide to run, of course, since minimizing or maximizing fascists’ access to government is the only question on the ballot this election.
And not just genocide overseas. Trump has made his position on immigrants and queer people very clear. And if anyone thinks ‘immigrants’ won’t include brown people that are native-born citizens who don’t happen to have the right ID on them, you’re wrong.
Until Harris fucks up terribly in public and jeopardizes her campaign, I won’t be advocating for her replacement. I never said “don’t vote Biden.” I said “run somebody better.” Keeping Trump out of office is more important to me than living in this country and I love where I live. I’m hopeful that Harris can win the trust of the people and prevent my having to relocate (and a bunch of other bad shit).
Cool strawman you’re beating up. I think the majority of us that didn’t want Biden is because he didn’t have a good path to victory. We didn’t want to just stand by and watch the train wreck happen. Harris isn’t much better, but at least she is better, and I will be on board with that of that’s who is chosen. I would rather see Whitmer be on the top of the ticket though.
Any moment now, the ‘don’t vote for Biden’ group will be in here telling us not to vote for Harris. And if it isn’t Harris, they’ll tell us not to vote for whoever it is.
The criterion is very simple: Don’t vote for genocide committers, enablers or planners. That excludes Biden and Trump.
If the Dems manage to produce a non genocide loving candidate, then vote vote vote and drag everyone who will vote for the non genocide candidate to the polling station.
“I’d rather let someone who actively, aggressively advocates, enables, and wants genocide domestically and abroad to win the presidency, over voting for somebody who passively enables genocide to happen abroad because actively trying to stop it could ignite WWIII” is still a bad take.
It is hypocritical to delude yourself into believing voting for genocide is somehow not approving genocide. And i hardly doubt that stopping Israel from committing genocide in Gaza would ignite WW3.
If you mistake it for Ukraine, think about all the help Ukraine is not getting so Israel can get it instead. Dozens of Billions in Weapons to slaughter a civillian population instead of helping Ukraine defend itself against Russias invasion.
I’m not deluding myself about anything. The choice isn’t “vote for or against genocide” it’s “act to get less or more genocide”. It’s not a false dichotomy; if you’re not voting to defeat Trump, then you’re acting to get more genocide.
By not acting to defeat Trump, you’re enabling genocide more than Biden ever has.
In some takes on the trolley problem (do nothing, five people are run over by a trolley an die, flip a track change switch and two people are run over by a trolley and die) flipping the switch is the morally worse option because then those two people’s deaths are your fault, whereas the five people who die because you did nothing are someone else’s fault. I don’t agree with that take, but it’s taken seriously in philosophy circles.
I don’t get how in the Levant, where both Hamas and the Israelis have significant factions that want to genocide the other people, a situation where Hamas does the genociding (because an Israel without attack capability de facto also loses defense capability) is somehow more moral than a situation where Israel does it.
You are making multiple false assumptions in there. The first being that 2.000 pound bombs are somehow “defensive”. The next being that a 30.000 fighters Hamas would somehow genocide all of the settlers, despite their army having hundreds of thousands of members. Then it goes further with this idea, that they want to eradicate them, when all they want is to get their land back. The settlers always have the options to leave and go back to their home countries. Meanwhile Israel as a settler colonial project has to commit genocide to complete itself because as long as a Palestinian people exists, it will demand to get back to its rightful land. Finally you are wrong about the reasons why people in Palestine support violence. They do so, because it is the only thing protecting them from annihilation. For Israelis it is a mix between believing, they need to commit genocide as being the perpetrator protects them from being the victims, classic imperialist greed and a big portion of racism and fascism.
But in the end Israel will destroy itself from within as all fascist states do eventually. The question is how many more people the US helps them to murder in the meantime.
I may be a weirdo, but I was on the “I’d consider not voting for Biden.” but I’m currently more interested in Harris. Nowhere near as bad of a track record as Biden had. From being racist, to supporting rapists getting into the Supreme Court, to backing massive removal of constitutional rights.
Harris’ record isn’t perfect, and while I’m in California, I don’t recall any bills she pushed/voted for as Senator that was anything as bad as the USA PATRIOT Act. I don’t like her record as our AG at all, but Senator is a different story.
If she picks a good VP pick, I’d be down. I’m wanting maybe Newsom, but that’s just he biggest Democrat I know, as he’s my Governor.
Edit: I don’t know how to make it clear: I live in California. If I voted for a ham sandwich for oresident it would have the same impact as voting for Biden. My state’s EC is clear and chosen, and popular vote doesn’t decide the president otherwise we’d never have Trump. I was considering going Greens, but I’m looking forward to Harris. Get mad at undecideds in Swing States and Trump supporters, not a registered Democrat in California.
so you’re going to vote, but not for biden because of galaxy brained electoral college games. this isn’t time to fuck around with rhetorical voting no matter how safe you think your state is.
A very common position among the lemmy crowd, unfortunately. I really don’t expect much to change either, just swap Harris for Biden in the hit pieces.
I don’t know how to make it clear: I live in California. If I voted for a ham sandwich for president it would have the same impact as voting for Biden. My state’s EC is clear and chosen, and popular vote doesn’t decide the president otherwise we’d never have Trump. I was considering going Greens, but I’m looking forward to Harris. Get mad at undecideds in Swing States and Trump supporters, not a registered Democrat in California.
I’m trying to. I live in the district Kevin McCarthy was in. His replacement isn’t great. Our blanket primary was “Republican backed by Kevin and Trump” and “Republican backed by conservative think tanks and Trump staff”.
I’ve considered running for office using a form of leftist talks masked like Republican talking points. But an openly queer leftist in Republican territory won’t go well, unless I figure out what urn I want ahead of time.
As a non American I just can’t comprehend how any of you even have to think about this.
On one hand, an old man, who, despite his age and stumbling over his words, has ran the country relatively successfully for the last four years.
On the other hand, another old man that was a global embarrassment, cosied up to Putin and Kim, spent most of his time golfing and shitting his pants, stole classified documents and likely sold state secrets, he is a sexual abuser, an actual criminal, clearly has corrupt justices on his side with crazy plans, chummy with epstein and took multiple trips to pedo Island, promoted racism at every opportunity, many of the people connected to him for his first term were imprisoned, refused to accept your democratic process, contributed in instigating a fucking coup attempt, and that’s likely not even the half of it…
Like, how the fuck can ANY of you look at that and say “Yeah but Biden stumbles over his words so I’ll just throw my vote away/vote for trump…”
I feel like I’m going insane just watching this shit unfold. It is all so bizarre.
Don’t worry, those of us Americans who don’t have their heads up their asses are just as baffled as you are and 3 times as embarrassed that Trump is even an option again.
I am in a fucking loop of laughter and tears because I don’t even know what to do anymore.
You wanna know how to shut those people up? Replace First Past The Post voting with something like Ranked Choice voting. Then they would have to make their own party and show us how it’s done. (No spoiler effect to)
![[Mega thread] - Biden ends bid for presidency](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9a2dc393-619f-4874-875e-80b5d90ecd3b.png){kind=link}
Any moment now, the ‘don’t vote for Biden’ group will be in here telling us not to vote for Harris. And if it isn’t Harris, they’ll tell us not to vote for whoever it is.
Anything but stop the dictator and his plan to commit genocide against Latinos and queer people.
Even if Trump wasn’t going to do awful things, I can’t stand his stupid face or his stupid voice or his stupid stupidity. That’s enough to vote for someone who’ll beat him.
No. It absolutely isn’t. I was too young to vote in the 2000 election, but Gore had the same stupid face, long drawn out speech paterns, and general unlikability.
However, his policies, and his message were good. I would have voted for him despite his stupid face, because of him being the better candidate.
I FULLY understand people hating trump…but I underatand the hate because trump is a piece of shit. I get why trump is hated for his bad policies. I get why people hate having a criminal in the white house.
But to say that if a candidate were good for the position, but you hate their face and voice, I wouldn’t understand that.
Yeah but Gore did win that election. It was stolen from him. Just like Bernie won the DNC nomination and it was stolen from him. Fuck the DNC. But fuck the RNC harder.
It was stolen from us.
Nah, Gore is not nearly as stupid as Trump, either in face, voice, or thought.
The reason we haven’t seen it happen yet is that they weren’t prepared for this. They need to make some memes and talking points, make sure everyone is on the same page. Give it a day or so, and we’ll start seeing a strangely concerted effort against Harris.
They’ve been doing memes involving coconuts. I had to look up why. I still don’t get it after reading about it.
She mentioned them. Don’t you see how grossly incompetent she is to hold office for this!?
I didn’t want to believe it but they’re already in the comments. We need to be vocal. Kamala is a great candidate.
‘Beating the Republican Fascist agenda’ is a great candidate. I don’t really care how that is spelled on the ballot.
I’ll vote for virtually anyone the Democrats nominate to stop the genocidal dictator, but my first choice, of course, will always be-
Alright, fuck it. I’LL run. I’m 40, nobody knows me so they don’t hate me, I think Hitler was bad, and I’ll let you guys smoke weed and keep your pronouns.
And for the republicans in the room, I’m not going to send anyone to take your guns. That sounds like a bad idea, that we already saw play out in Waco TX. Nobody wants that.
And for all the cats registered as undecided parties…meow meow meow meow meow. Meow meow MEOW MEOW MEOW!!! HISSS HISSSSS HISSSSSS clickclickclickclickclickclick…purrrr purrrr purrrr purrrrr purrrrrr.
And to all the mentally crazy voters, HEYMYNAMESBOBANDIMHERETOMAKEEVERYBODYSAFEFROMTHELIZARDPEOPLEFROMEATINGOURBRAINSANDTHEGOVERNMENTPOTBELLIEDPIGSBACONVIVALEREVOLUTION!!!
And to the dyslexic voters, Helol hwo aer yuo?
Shit, quick someone get him on the ballots!
That’s my main deciding point, and why I’m happy Biden stepped down. I didn’t think he’d win the Rust Belt. Harris might.
My main vote is “Not Trump’s Fascism.”
I will absolutely vote whoever is opposite of trump on the ticket. But a black woman winning the rust belt? That would be wild. I’m all for it, mind you, but that would be some crazy shit.
Trump kept climbing the polls in PA, which is the Keystone state of this election.
I’m not sorry, and I will be here all night.
Of course they are. They started when it was just rumored that Biden would drop out.
How is she a good candidate? She stood against everything progressives stand for as a prosecutor and hasn’t apologized or clarified that she supports marijuana legalization, abolition of for-profit prisons, or disproportionately prosecuting minorities.
What the fuck are you talking about? When she was running for president in 2019, she released detailed plans about how she would legalize marijuana, abolish private prisons, and reform the carceral system.
I get that you probably weren’t aware of her evolved stance on these things, but a single google search could have shown you that you were incorrect on every single point you made.
And I’m happy to be wrong about her evolved state. Thanks.
If I could give you some kind of prize I would. Have a meaningless pixel trophy instead, and an upvote: 🏆
This is the bravest comment I’ve seen today, you deserve an internet prize 🏆
I love this site
Has she done those things? (I sincerely don’t know.)
I’ve heard that she’s revised her stances, but even in 2019 there was some question regarding the sincerity of her evolving viewpoints.
We’re likely to get 8 years of her if she wins, so I think it’s entirely reasonable to want her to affirm her stances in some of these areas. We won’t be able to move any further left than she allows. Sure, she’s not Trump, and I’m going to vote for her. It would be nice to have hope she’ll do more than just move right more slowly than Trump though.
I mean, she’ll have ample opportunity to expound on that. But prison reform and legalizing marijuana were platforms she ran on in 2019. I haven’t seen anything from her that would indicate she’s reversed her position since then.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/
She laughed because it was funny and I’m tired of people telling me it’s not. 💥 🔫
She’s been a prosecutor, senator, and now VP. She has the experience. She can speak in complete sentences. She is a neo-liberal but that was a given. All Democratic candidates since Clinton have been neo-liberals. The idea that Kamala is anti-progressive is false.
Let me ask you a question: Harris Or Trump?
Harris, 100% I was wrong about the statement. She evolved her stance and has grown.
If she she’s was a great candidate she would have been the candidate 4 years ago.
Fuck ooooffffffffff my god these flippant bullshit one liners get so old
Dear god, please tell me this isn’t the best you people can come up with.
Funny that’s what I say when I hear Harris is gonna be the candidate.
She’s an adequate candidate for the task at hand, which is beating Trump. Biden no longer is.
That’s far from a assured. She has a ton of issues on her own.
She’s an improvement over Biden. And just look at all the time, money, and effort Republicans wasted against someone who’s no longer even running. They’re flailing and trying to find something that will stick.
Improvement cognitively, I don’t know if I’d say she’s and Improvement in any other way whatsoever.
She was on the ticket 4 years ago. She is VP. Now she’s on top. Kamala 2024!
I’m concerned you couldn’t grasp that by candidate we were talking about the Presidential candidate.
I understand. Kamala is going to president of the United States of America. And it’s going to be awesome.
If you’d applied this logic to trump would have even posted this?
Wha… what? What does that even mean?
The republicans are running last election’s loser.
Yeah?
By the same token, Biden was tied for dead last in the 2008 primary. Things change.
That’s an interesting factoid, but I haven’t been able to find it anywhere. Do you have a source on that?
So she hasn’t gained any knowledge or experience in the last 4 years? We’re all just born with all the knowledge and experience we will ever have?
Honestly, doubt it.
Harris isn’t ideal, but she’s an improvement. She’s less on board with genocide than Bidenyahu, and she can fog a mirror.
Vote for Harris. Don’t make the party regret listening.
Most of the biden haters i know on the left are upset about his support for israel. Harris has been much more critical of the genocide. We’ll just have to see.
I didnt want to vote for biden, but was still going to vote blue no matter who. Im glad i dont have to vote for genocide anymore.
I’m sure you still will have to unfortunately.
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Hi, I think you’ve seen me in enough places saying not to vote for Biden.
Go vote for Harris.
as a queer leftist (look up ag kamala’s record on gender affirming care for trans inmates for a fun time) I support her on electoral grounds- she isn’t visibly falling apart at the seams like Biden and can do the physical work of campaigning and interacting with potential voters. We can work with this.
She is also on record as having a somewhat tougher stance on Israel’s war (unlike Joe, who supported them no matter what they did). That’s my personal red-line issue so I’m glad there’s some semblance of a shift there :/
She’s one of the reasons if someone were to kill you they wouldn’t be able to use ‘i panicked’ as a defense.
She has a really checkered record wrt trans stuff altogether. I’m concerned.
She’s better than Trump but a significant step down from Biden in terms of most of the things I care about which makes her a concerning pick, combined with the fact that she performs worse in polling (if that was the main concern). I hope I’m wrong but I’m concerned that this basically sealed the Dems’ loss.
Here is the internal polling that was released, this was before Biden resigned
Source: https://x.com/DrewLinzer/status/1815491120677458288
Unless they’re a cop. Then it’s the defense they go to and can never be convicted under unless we have them on video calmly shooting the handcuffed guy in the back of the head.
And even then, bootlickers will be like “he was clearly reaching for the cop’s gun!”
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Well VPs traditionally will say the things the President can’t say publicly for geopolitical reasons. Harris may have been saying the things the Biden was thinking but couldn’t directly say while actively negotiating with Netanyahu. Can’t be sure but it’s a more likely scenario than her going rogue against someone on the same ticket as her.
Doesn’t matter now, but more for future reference. If a future President Harris isn’t saying what you want her to say on foreign policy issues but her VP is, you’ll know what’s up.
It’s pretty logical and common for US to support Israel no matter what
Yes and that’s high key horrifying. However it’s not a majority opinion https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
That doesn’t really matter that it’s a majority opinion. Cause average people don’t really care about US’s strategic interests in the middle east.
I’m really hoping if Harris still has to be on the ticket that she’ll stay VP. It would be nice to have a decent prez option.
But I’ll be voting anti trump either way.
It would also be nice not to live on a burning planet controlled by decrepit rich psychopaths but I don’t think either of us will be getting what we want.
I’ll still vote for whatever the democrats decide to run, of course, since minimizing or maximizing fascists’ access to government is the only question on the ballot this election.
Why?
And soon enough, the wrong kind of christians
Yeah I like Harris less than Biden. Sad day tbh.
Absolutely they will. When the gEnOciDe stopped working/got boring, they switched to- oLd!
Give it a day, they’ll have their reasons not to vote for her too.
Someone already replied to me saying that unless the Democrats produce a “non genocide-loving candidate,” don’t vote for them.
Bots bots and more bots. I assume all of that garbage is coming from a room full of shoulder to shoulder ruskies
conveniently making room for the one candidate who probably does love a genocide
And not just genocide overseas. Trump has made his position on immigrants and queer people very clear. And if anyone thinks ‘immigrants’ won’t include brown people that are native-born citizens who don’t happen to have the right ID on them, you’re wrong.
Nah, I said I would support her if that’s what it came down to.
She needs a good VP though with her record.
That debate and the putin -Zelensky trump-Harris mixups so short together.
Pull in Buttigieg and you have a white male as a backup to calm people down and maybe pull in the gay vote.
I understand how the last sentence could be seen the wrong way, but it’s the cynical reality.
You’re talking about election strategy, it’s not wrong if a bit blunt/overly reduced.
,
Until Harris fucks up terribly in public and jeopardizes her campaign, I won’t be advocating for her replacement. I never said “don’t vote Biden.” I said “run somebody better.” Keeping Trump out of office is more important to me than living in this country and I love where I live. I’m hopeful that Harris can win the trust of the people and prevent my having to relocate (and a bunch of other bad shit).
Cool strawman you’re beating up. I think the majority of us that didn’t want Biden is because he didn’t have a good path to victory. We didn’t want to just stand by and watch the train wreck happen. Harris isn’t much better, but at least she is better, and I will be on board with that of that’s who is chosen. I would rather see Whitmer be on the top of the ticket though.
One of my strawmen replied to me below. You should tell them about how I knocked them down.
You will never please everybody.
I thought I was beating up strawmen? Now they exist?
You do understand what a straw man argument is, right?
The strawman is acting like they’re the majority.
When did I do such a thing? Please quote me.
Just take the L and move on.
The criterion is very simple: Don’t vote for genocide committers, enablers or planners. That excludes Biden and Trump.
If the Dems manage to produce a non genocide loving candidate, then vote vote vote and drag everyone who will vote for the non genocide candidate to the polling station.
“I’d rather let someone who actively, aggressively advocates, enables, and wants genocide domestically and abroad to win the presidency, over voting for somebody who passively enables genocide to happen abroad because actively trying to stop it could ignite WWIII” is still a bad take.
It’s baffling and hypocritical.
It is hypocritical to delude yourself into believing voting for genocide is somehow not approving genocide. And i hardly doubt that stopping Israel from committing genocide in Gaza would ignite WW3.
If you mistake it for Ukraine, think about all the help Ukraine is not getting so Israel can get it instead. Dozens of Billions in Weapons to slaughter a civillian population instead of helping Ukraine defend itself against Russias invasion.
I’m not deluding myself about anything. The choice isn’t “vote for or against genocide” it’s “act to get less or more genocide”. It’s not a false dichotomy; if you’re not voting to defeat Trump, then you’re acting to get more genocide.
By not acting to defeat Trump, you’re enabling genocide more than Biden ever has.
In some takes on the trolley problem (do nothing, five people are run over by a trolley an die, flip a track change switch and two people are run over by a trolley and die) flipping the switch is the morally worse option because then those two people’s deaths are your fault, whereas the five people who die because you did nothing are someone else’s fault. I don’t agree with that take, but it’s taken seriously in philosophy circles.
And what is your plan for stopping Trump’s planned genocides?
Unfortunately, talking about realistic plans will get you banned in this community
They aren’t realistic because no one with any credible ability to pull them off is making such plans. You sure aren’t leading the lynch mob.
Thomas Crooks is leading the mob.
If the leader of your great revolution is a corpse, I think you have big problems.
Corpse, Martyr, similar but different.
From 6ft underground?
I think that’s a requirement for being a martyr.
I had this discussion with someone a couple weeks ago and was surprised to learn that it’s not.
https://www.wordnik.com/words/martyr
The guy that had no political motives and was just trying to hit the highest valued target he could? That’s a piss poor leader.
That’s also true, but I’d say the bigger problem when it comes to his leadership skills is his complete lack of brain and other organ activity.
Biden already dropped.
That’s your interpretation of his motives.
Yes, because that’s where the evidence leads. I do tend to form my interpretations of things based on evidence.
I don’t get how in the Levant, where both Hamas and the Israelis have significant factions that want to genocide the other people, a situation where Hamas does the genociding (because an Israel without attack capability de facto also loses defense capability) is somehow more moral than a situation where Israel does it.
You are making multiple false assumptions in there. The first being that 2.000 pound bombs are somehow “defensive”. The next being that a 30.000 fighters Hamas would somehow genocide all of the settlers, despite their army having hundreds of thousands of members. Then it goes further with this idea, that they want to eradicate them, when all they want is to get their land back. The settlers always have the options to leave and go back to their home countries. Meanwhile Israel as a settler colonial project has to commit genocide to complete itself because as long as a Palestinian people exists, it will demand to get back to its rightful land. Finally you are wrong about the reasons why people in Palestine support violence. They do so, because it is the only thing protecting them from annihilation. For Israelis it is a mix between believing, they need to commit genocide as being the perpetrator protects them from being the victims, classic imperialist greed and a big portion of racism and fascism.
But in the end Israel will destroy itself from within as all fascist states do eventually. The question is how many more people the US helps them to murder in the meantime.
I may be a weirdo, but I was on the “I’d consider not voting for Biden.” but I’m currently more interested in Harris. Nowhere near as bad of a track record as Biden had. From being racist, to supporting rapists getting into the Supreme Court, to backing massive removal of constitutional rights.
Harris’ record isn’t perfect, and while I’m in California, I don’t recall any bills she pushed/voted for as Senator that was anything as bad as the USA PATRIOT Act. I don’t like her record as our AG at all, but Senator is a different story.
If she picks a good VP pick, I’d be down. I’m wanting maybe Newsom, but that’s just he biggest Democrat I know, as he’s my Governor.
Edit: I don’t know how to make it clear: I live in California. If I voted for a ham sandwich for oresident it would have the same impact as voting for Biden. My state’s EC is clear and chosen, and popular vote doesn’t decide the president otherwise we’d never have Trump. I was considering going Greens, but I’m looking forward to Harris. Get mad at undecideds in Swing States and Trump supporters, not a registered Democrat in California.
you were considering not voting for Biden when Trump was the alternative?
Not all of us live in swing states. It’s weird that so many people act as if that’s the case online.
I don’t care where you live, vote.
I never said I wasn’t going to vote.
so you’re going to vote, but not for biden because of galaxy brained electoral college games. this isn’t time to fuck around with rhetorical voting no matter how safe you think your state is.
Yes. But I’m in California. My vote for President doesn’t matter. My local ballots do.
and what benefit do you think not voting for Biden would have gotten you?
A very common position among the lemmy crowd, unfortunately. I really don’t expect much to change either, just swap Harris for Biden in the hit pieces.
I don’t know how to make it clear: I live in California. If I voted for a ham sandwich for president it would have the same impact as voting for Biden. My state’s EC is clear and chosen, and popular vote doesn’t decide the president otherwise we’d never have Trump. I was considering going Greens, but I’m looking forward to Harris. Get mad at undecideds in Swing States and Trump supporters, not a registered Democrat in California.
CA still has republicans in congress so please still vote.
I’m trying to. I live in the district Kevin McCarthy was in. His replacement isn’t great. Our blanket primary was “Republican backed by Kevin and Trump” and “Republican backed by conservative think tanks and Trump staff”.
I’ve considered running for office using a form of leftist talks masked like Republican talking points. But an openly queer leftist in Republican territory won’t go well, unless I figure out what urn I want ahead of time.
Well keep on fighting. 😊
Even if we lose in 2024, we keep fighting.
As a non American I just can’t comprehend how any of you even have to think about this.
On one hand, an old man, who, despite his age and stumbling over his words, has ran the country relatively successfully for the last four years.
On the other hand, another old man that was a global embarrassment, cosied up to Putin and Kim, spent most of his time golfing and shitting his pants, stole classified documents and likely sold state secrets, he is a sexual abuser, an actual criminal, clearly has corrupt justices on his side with crazy plans, chummy with epstein and took multiple trips to pedo Island, promoted racism at every opportunity, many of the people connected to him for his first term were imprisoned, refused to accept your democratic process, contributed in instigating a fucking coup attempt, and that’s likely not even the half of it…
Like, how the fuck can ANY of you look at that and say “Yeah but Biden stumbles over his words so I’ll just throw my vote away/vote for trump…”
I feel like I’m going insane just watching this shit unfold. It is all so bizarre.
Don’t worry, those of us Americans who don’t have their heads up their asses are just as baffled as you are and 3 times as embarrassed that Trump is even an option again.
I am in a fucking loop of laughter and tears because I don’t even know what to do anymore.
As an American I’m newly flabbergasted by this every damn day
You wanna know how to shut those people up? Replace First Past The Post voting with something like Ranked Choice voting. Then they would have to make their own party and show us how it’s done. (No spoiler effect to)
Nothing will shut them up. They want to find reasons to be upset about not getting their pony.