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People. We, the French, pulled a left-wing coalition out of our asses in less than a week and managed to “win” an election. You have months. Hope is permitted.
It’s very true. We’ve been brainwashed into a year long campaign mostly because it generates a lot of money for various parties but prior elections have proven it’s mostly what happens in the last month that makes a difference.
Y’all are lucky you can make coalitions, though. This is more akin to your election if you only had centrists and far right running. Two party system and all that.
So we need a French immigrant to help fix the government?
I think you’ll start to see a lot more excitement in the next few weeks.
I’m already noticing a lot of hype for Kamala 🤞
I mean, ok, what’s not to hype? The second Black president, but in two centuries, it would be the first woman. The right’s heads will collectively explode if she wins.
The last time a black person became president, they got Trump. A black woman president will be…Super Trump?
I shudder to think what they could come up with that would worse than Trump, because we know there is no depth the bar can’t sink to
A guy just as completely lacking in any sort of shame, morals, or empathy, but actually smart. He’d also have to be smart enough to hide the fact that he’s smart, because the GOP relies on the “really fucking stupid” vote.
Mmmm you know this would be quite the upside
Thank you
Props to the French voters for shutting out the Rally.
Most of the French voters.
Damn good job in the second round.
Thanks for your support! And very happy to see your success in France.
Can someone find the “hope is kindled” gif from LoTR Return of the King? When Pipin lights the beacon of Minas Tirith. I can’t find it.
You are a wonderful human. May you find 20 bucks in a pocket of the next coat you put on
We don’t really do coalitions here. Our voting system doesn’t allow for it.
It does happen within Congress itself though, when different sects of the two parties cross the aisle to join with the other party on certain issues. But since Congress doesn’t elect a prime minister, it doesn’t happen for the presidency.
I know. You’re missing my point. :)
My point wasn’t the coalition. My point was that we had 21 days to cobble something together and not only did we do it, we managed to win with it. It’s not about the coalition, it’s about building a campaign. You have months to do so.
And you’re about to say that Trump had way longer to do so. Yes. So did the far right in our country, which barely even campaigned because all of the media were doing so on their behalf for the last two years and we still managed to outnumber them.
Trust me, my faith in the Democrats is barely existent. But still, I think it can be done.
A “long” election campaign in the UK is 6 weeks. In 1992 they had one that was just 30 days.
Months is plenty of time, especially in the modern world. Maybe 250 years ago it was necessary to campaign for months on end so that the candidate could personally travel by train to every state. But, with modern media (both traditional and social), there’s no real reason for campaigns to be as long as they are. The only reason they’re this long is that the thought is that the earlier you start campaigning, the better. So, each side keeps starting earlier and earlier, making it effectively into a neverending campaign cycle.
US election campaigns have gotten longer, not storter in modern times. The reasons are complicated but mostly shitty.
Yeah, probably infinite money being pumped in allowing campaigns to start earlier and earlier.
“Hope and change” is back in it to win it.
Motherfucking Obama at it again.
Lol, Obama comming back would be incredible. Is he even allowed to? He already served two terms
He’s not allowed to but people are saying Michelle could be the pick, but that would only be marginally better than Kamala
They need Gretchen, Pete, or Kelly
Jon Stewart. Someone go pull him and make him do it. There’s no one better to take down Trump.
He’d be miserable the whole time, but we’d all be better off. Please Jon!
I mean I’d love it and I’m going back and forth on this comment. His biggest negative is those who lean right will see him exactly as he is “a New York Jew”
That said, who better to trounce Trump and humiliate his ass? I think the only thing better would be Michelle Obama. Trump would lose his absolute shit debating and/or losing to a woman let alone a black woman.
Watch that fucker drop the N bomb in a debate against her lol
A 2-woman ticket would never work. It’s going to be very dicey having a woman leading the ticket with a man as VP, given how sexist the US electorate is.
What’s sexist is going on and on about how a woman is unelectable.
Yes, reality is sexist. But, you can’t just live in a fantasy land.
A friend of mine was running a restaurant, and before a major business meeting, her 2nd said that he should do all the talking because the other party was sexist and wouldn’t listen to a woman.
She fired his ass, rightfully. That is not what progress looks like. Step up and fight against sexism, don’t concede to that shit.
I fuckin’ hope so. 🤞🏽
It’s a binary choice in the US presidential election, that isn’t even based on the popular vote.
The regime provides two choices, people do a circle jerk, regime gets their candidate.
Win win!
Unless you work for money
Thank you, French. You’re awesome. I was losing hope, and yet a miracle happened.
Good job.
Lord have merci
Why’d you put “win” in quotes?
Because we only have a relative majority and now Macron is teaming up with the hard right (not the far right, the other right right that is not center right… Yeah, too much right is wrong) to deprive us of any path to government. Shit sucks. But it could have sucked way harder.
It’s also a strategic moderate move to keep the hard right from merging with Reform.
I’m hoping the left wing parties aren’t locked out and still able to get progress made.
Cuddling up to the hard right might look like a strategical move but it never works. Normalising them only shifts the discussion further to the right. And let’s face it… in this post-factual time where all that matters is the narratives, giving them a platform will only help to brain-wash more people into believing right-wing fake-solutions to actual problems.
Couldn’t agree more.
Because, well, the left coalition came out ahead of the vote but then started to loose ground to political shenanigans. War is not over but a significant battle was lost.
America has no left wing. The dems have now handed Trump the win since its way too late to change the candidate and Harris is completely invisible
You, the French, have not been the target of a 40 year war against public education by the right wing. Americans are on average significantly less capable of rational thought because of it. Source: I am an American raised in the crippled education system I mentioned before.
It’s a bit naive to think Western Europe hasn’t been under attack from the right wing at least as long as the US has. They’ve had wars over it that never really reached US shores, and it never really went away. All of the strategies that have been used in the US were piloted and honed in Europe – look up the activities there by Manafort, Stone, Bannon, etc. all the same names who have been implementing the shit you’re seeing in the US were active in Western and Eastern Europe years before this. It’s been going on there far longer.
It’s amazing to me that people in the US haven’t been paying attention to what’s gone on there and learning from their successes.
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Ah yes, Europe never had to deal with such far right-wingers. We’d like borrow the term you guys came up with to describe them in case we ever face such violent fascists. What was it again?
Oh right, Nazis.
Those were mostly dead before you were born and you have likely never personally suffered at the hands of right wing violence.
My niece had her hand broken by a rancid nazi flag waving trumpfucker for having the gall to stand up for trans rights, but I’m sure the old-timey pro-nationalist graffiti you’ve have occasionally been forced to observe was just as harmful.
There are literal hard right militias training with military grade equipment on our own soil RIGHT NOW, and it is likely that most of the police force will join them.
No one you know or love is at threat more than my own family right now and I will NOT sit by quiet while greasestains like you try and marginalize this.
Not that I don’t agree with you, but do you really think the elderly edgelord forum warrior shtick is the best play? Taking a point from your own posts, is it really a good idea to post content online that might alienate potential allies? Food for thought.
If people are going to choose fascism because they were annoyed by an angry person on the internet, then this world deserves to fucking burn away to ash.
It’s pretty naive to think there is any other country on the planet that could cause the world more damage if turned fascist.
I never said that, and I’m confused how you got that from my comment.
In fact, if you look through my history, you’ll see I’ve said if the US goes fascist, that will be a huge problem for the whole world.
I’m not downplaying the threat at all – quite the opposite. We’re on the same side, and I’m not sure why you’re attacking me here.
I’m tired of people making light of this, I’m tired of people being passive about this, there is only one way that considering Biden stepping down literally weeks before the election, and that is everyone, not just Americans, clearing the discussion space for people who seriously desire and possess the ability to prevent trump from being elected. Yet EVERY SINGLE online space is carpet bombed with bots and human forum manipulators who are ALLOWED to exist because they hide in the memes and the jokes, being able to muddy the discussion and break morale all under the guise of ‘it’s a prank bro’ so they are immune to being called out. It’s already been well established that Lemmy mods are just as careless and agenda driven as the reddit mods we fled here to escape, so we can’t count on THEM clearing the conversation. It has to be the users, by:
- Not memeing for clout for a few fucking weeks for one goddamn time in human history
- Downvoting to oblivion everyone who does
- Only bringing content that forwards the goal of preventing twice impeached, convicted felon ex-president 45 out of office.
But this will never happen, because the users have ‘the right to play’, and their discourse of subtle anti-Harris ‘humor’ will spread like cancer, just like the anti-Hillary meme machine of 2016, and every mod and their mother will fight for those shitheads rights to slide us further and further into fucking fascism.
I’m tired of people making light of this, I’m tired of people being passive about this,
Hey man, so am I. We’re on the same page. I’ve spent the last 10 years trying to get people to take this threat seriously. That’s why I bring up what’s happened in Europe and how the far right has been piloting their ideas there. They’ve been planning this and working out the details for decades, but they’ve also lost during some of that. My point is maybe we can look at those losses and learn some things.
Many people in the US are totally unaware of that history and haven’t seen where they’ve been stomped back down. I’m saying we can look at their losses and learn something. Chest-thumping does nothing. We should be learning.
They’ve got an advantage because whilst most democratic leaders have been trying to govern and deal with crises, they’ve been systematically testing the fences. Like velociraptors, they’ll eat everyone’s faces at the first opportunity.
You’re right – we can’t make light of this or be passive. I’ve been trying to figure out how we can collectively resist for a decade. I didn’t want Biden to step down, and even though I don’t personally like Biden, I never said that because we can’t be divided and he was better than the Nazis on the porch. But now he has and this is where we are.
I’ve been downvoted for years for saying the things you’re saying – again, I don’t get why you’re angry at me. I’ve tried to get people to see the real state of things, and I’ll not stop doing that. All I can do now is convince people to vote, because that’s the only play we have left, but I’d like even more for people to understand the real threat. And I still don’t get why you seem angry at me when we’re on the same side.
A 2day old account has Lemmy figured out.
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I’ll say just one thing:
Every single one of you assholes who wouldn’t shut up about him stepping down since the dude missed the toilet bowl fifty years ago after a particularly wild night out better sure as fuck step up now that Old Joe has stepped down.
A sitting god damned President of the United States has stepped aside less than half a year before reelection. Make no mistake: The man swallowed his pride and ego HARD to make this decision. Let’s honor that by creating a wall of votes so god. damned. thick. Riley Reid would gasp.
Biden did several classy things during some real fuckin difficult times. I can’t imagine how tough this decision was. I really hope we as a country can galvanize solid opposition and keep Trump/Vance’s asses out. Let’s be grateful for the good Biden has done, and if Kamala is the next up that gets the nomination, support the hell out of her.
I don’t understand you people in this thread.
Ever since the debate, people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down from the presidential race and give the place to someone else.
Now I read the comments and everyone is criticizing and accusing the Democrats of not knowing what they’re doing? Are you for real? They’re doing EXACTLY what people have been asking for. They’re doing EXACTLY what needs to be done if they want to win.
Fucking hell you guys, make up your fucking mind.
Sincerely,
A Canadian with severe anxiety over your next presidential election.
Well, to be fair, he should have stepped down a year ago, or at least 3 months ago. I vaguely remember him saying he was going to be a 1 term candidate in 2020.
Anyway, I respect Biden. I honestly think he was a better president than Obama, Bush, Trump and Clinton. Perhaps the best since Carter or JFK.
Those are not necessarily the same people.
But there is no good option here. The good option would have been to run a good candidate over a year ago. That time has obviously long since passed.
This was an astroturfing campaign covering our media and also via bots on social media.
I watched the debate and while he was slower, and mixed up words he actually was aware of US goals and challenges (despite what media tried to imply), trump was more energetic but he was constantly spewing nonsense, and while part of it was lying as usual, part of it was clear that he was actually getting lost.
I even wrote that in certain that if Biden steps down the same bots will start campaign how Democrats were cheated to discourage them from voting (like it was worth Bernie).
I’m definitively voting for Kamala now no matter what ridiculous bullshit they will come up on her on September-October (you can be sure there will be some scandal that will turnout to be nothing burger after election). I got fooled (like a lot of people) in 2016 to vote 3rd party and we got trump.
Republicans are actually a minority they can only win if they discourage enough people from voting. That’s why they are against laws that that make voting easier.
I actually was hoping Biden would run as he has great experience with foreign leaders as well as very successful reaching compromises and passing bills that otherwise wouldn’t fly.
As I say though I will 100% vote for Kamala (or whomever will be the democratic candidate), definitively not the fascist party and in fact anyone on Democrats side looks good.
I don’t think it’s the same people wanting him to drop out vs sad that he did drop out. Or they did want him to drop out because he’s aging but they are sad that he did because he was a good president.
I think part of the reason it feels like “wtf are you doing?!?” is because we were really saying “Joe needs to step the fuck up or step aside” and then in the last week he’s thrown some absolute hard hits at Trump making it look like “holy shit, we got old Joe back!”. Then suddenly after appearing to wake up, he goes “nah, I’m good.”.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad he’s stepping aside. But it’s been a bit of a rollercoaster and not a very consistent message. They kept telling us to shut up and follow Biden and anyone who doesn’t is supporting facism and then suddenly, “nah, not Biden, it’s cool”? You can’t pump a rhetoric machine up and then expect the brakes to stop it instantly.
One thing I appreciate about Canadian elections is how quickly they happen. An election is called, campaigning is like a month or two and then we find out the new government just hours after casting our votes.
All of this should have been done a couple years ago for presidential hopefuls to gather resources and prepare for the elections. The assumption that Biden was seeking a second term stalled a lot of minor steps needed to build a campaign. Biden stepping down a month before the DNC is gonna be a shit show. Who’s gonna run for becoming a candidate? How are they gonna fundraise quickly enough to get the word out? This is a clusterfuck of poorly timed decisions and I only hope the new candidate can gather enough support to win the presidential election. Given the Democratic party’s penchant of favoring people from their inner circle, I doubt they’ll be well received by the general public to begin with.
The fact the the DNC didn’t have a contingency plan while running the oldest candidate ever is just insane.
The DNC has been fumbling for years and years now. Anyone else remember 2016?
Not speaking for the rest of the thread, but…
- Biden should have said he wasn’t up for reelección since day 1
- The Democratic Party hasn’t known what to do since the 2016 election… at least.
Holy shit you think you’re anxious? Some of us are stuck living here. It’s not actually that easy to emigrate to Canada (bet you guys did that for a reason…).
Lemmy, as opposed to reddit, has seemed to be very much on the Keep Biden train for some reason.
I for one will be happy with any candidate that can do two to three campaign appearances per day for the next four months and doesn’t have the Genocide Joe baggage. Everything else is gravy.
Lemmy isn’t a monolith, including the ones in this thread. I’ve seen as many people calling for him to drop out as those saying he should say. End of the day, none of us have anything valuable to say you should be relying on for insight.
They’re doing EXACTLY what needs to be done if they want to win.
How would this help them win exactly? I’m not really well tuned with politics
I’m excited AF… maybe the people you’re reading are republican plants that are just trying to make it feel like chaos.
The fact that this happened the weekend after the RNC makes me feel it was very well planned.
Personally the best news I’ve heard in a while. I think there is a little bit of a knee jerk reaction happening because a lot is on the line and people are scared because it’s such an unknown right now. When things settle more and the smoke clears I think everything will be more positive.
The internet isn’t a place to draw an understanding of politics. The internet isn’t even a place to draw an understanding of the internet.
Not everyone is posting in good faith. Some are shit stirrers. Some may be paid trolls.
Also, the people who were saying he should step down might not be the same people today saying it’s a bad idea.
They’re not the same people.
Lemmy posters are not a monolith.
You’re seeing the people who either didn’t agree he should step down or agreed but didn’t think they’d actually do it.
I think this is a side effect of sharing and discussion these events online, especially in a link aggregator like Lemmy. You can you see inconsistent views presented in multiple threads yet they feel as if you’re interacting with the same group of people.
Some people are happy about this turn of events while others are not. I expect that you’re seeing differing major opinions from separate groups of people.
There’s multiple people on here with multiple opinions, and those opinions are subject to change as new information arises.
Ever since the debate, people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down
Yes, some.
Now I read the comments and everyone is criticizing and accusing the Democrats of not knowing what they’re doing
Yes, others.
Different people speak up on different days. This is especially true in social media where often people won’t speak up if they know they’re going to get jumped on.
Yes some of us been paying attention to who is backing him and who wasn’t. Some of us had noticed that all the leftists in the party were still behind Joe Biden while all the neoliberals weren’t. Some of us have noticed that the president who has protected worker rights and expanded consumer protection and wants to tax the wealthy is getting pushed out by the corporate Democrats.
I mean many here openly support Putin too, what can you do
I personally just said last week that I believed only Biden was capable of beating Trump, so I’m feeling pretty sick right now. God, I hope I’m wrong.
We haaaaaavvvvvve to see this example and set a damn age limit for people to hold such high positions in our country. Old dude may have very well just sent us down an irreversible and utterly destructive path by seeking the office in the first place.
I know Bernie Sanders is old too, but damn I wish he had won the nomination. We wouldn’t be in this crisis right now. Still though, it’s a gamble electing people who are already waist deep in their grave.
Man
What a strange and historic month this has been. We’re all living in a very big moment in history right now, just, all the way around.
I think people are angry about the timing. It feels like too little, too late. If he had made the decision at the beginning of the year, then sure. But now it’ll be rushed, and people won’t be able to agree on a single candidate. And people are worried that, due to the resulting lack of agreement, a split vote will hand the win to Trump.
people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down from the presidential race
Pretty sure that was a DNC campaign to coup biden. Sure people had opinions both ways but what you are talking about was a psyop to turn public opinion.
Across all socials and teevee, it was laddered and in sync.
Many of the people involved in such agitation are not arguing in good faith. They simply want to attack the ‘libs’ at every opportunity, and reality be damned.
I’m ecstatic of Biden dropping. It’s no longer a sure loss for the D’s…there’s a glimmer of hope for us after all.
Ever since the debate, people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down from the presidential race and give the place to someone else. … Now I read the comments and everyone is criticizing and accusing the Democrats of not knowing what they’re doing?
Lol, you thought those people were arguing in good faith.
They’re doomers
I didn’t say any of that. With only four months until the election, I think this is kind of dumb.
Trump gets attention for nearly getting assassinated.
Biden: Hold my Metamucil
So well played!..let them spend millions and millions on a campaign against Joe, then as soon as Dumbnald was picked, Joe bugs out and in his place…first black woman multiracial presidential candidate. Vs. crazy rapist felon, who would win?
C’mon republicans! Your move! 😉. Maybe bring back the girl who can see Alaska from her house because she lives in Alaska and not ruzzia.
Well guys… Have you seen Trump’s mental decline since he last ran?! How old is he now?
Surely nobody would be dumb enough to vote someone that old into office now… That is… What we have been saying? Right guys?
Biden is our democratic palisade to the January 6th coup on the United States of America.
Whatever else Biden did, Biden stopped the flood. That is the Biden legacy to me.
This whole Biden stepping down vs Trump saga is a metaphor for the American baby boomer generation’s approaches to their own reckoning of their old age and their reluctance to pass down the torch to another generation.
for everyone sake: phew. i feel sorry for him, he obviously lacks energy and needs to not be trying to run america and fight trump.
Wait wait, let me guess, now all of the sudden we’re not literally fascists for thinking that it would be best if Biden stepped down. A sincere fuck you too everyone who commented accordingly for the last month.
The biggest hot-topic issue this election should have been abortion (and by extension, SCOTUS). But the discussion got side-tracked by all this talk of old age. The debate just reinforced the narrative and concern with Biden. They would have hammered him over and over, with Trump bragging about how quickly he recovered from an injury.
Now, we have:
- A sittingVP with actual Whitehouse experience, who can take credit for all the economic policies under Biden. Also, a former Senator.
- A prosecutor and former Attorney General vs a convicted felon.
- The age issue disappears (in fact, it now becomes a liability against Trump).
- A woman vs the guy who bragged about killing Roe v. Wade.
- Future of SCOTUS.
If she just keeps talking about those topics non-stop, she’ll do fine.
The only thing better would have been if Biden had resigned to let people see her in the actual role, but this works. She picks a mid-westerner as VP who can stand up to Vance and it’s a whole new ballgame.
I’m actually stoked about this race again.
Unfortunately we also have:
- A non-white candidate
- A non-male candidate
- A very sexist and racist electorate, who basically voted Trump in because they were so upset by the election of Barack Hussein Obama
It remains to be seen if the racists and sexists will prevail.
Having said that, this might energize women who are on the fence and want to see the first female president. It might energize black voters. It will almost certainly energize Indian voters, possibly even all South-Asian voters. It will definitely energize voters who were worried about the age of the candidates. And now, suddenly, Trump has to go on the defensive about his age.
As long as all the democrats fall in line and push for Kamala, it might go really well. If Hillary Clinton goes out and works for Kamala, it could energize the people who are still angry about her loss, and can now channel that into the new option for a first female president. If Biden campaigns for her, it could reassure all the people who just wanted some stability.
OTOH, if there is infighting, and people trying to take her down so that they can become the nominee, then that could be trouble too.
How many people, realistically, would vote for a white male Democrat but NOT a non-white female?
People are talking about this, but I don’t know who this voter is. The hard line racists and sexists were not moderates, they’re all already Republican.
There are far more democrats that were against Biden because of his age than would be against Harris as a woman. This is a net gain. Fuck the people who won’t vote for her along gender or racial lines. I don’t want to try and appease them.
Give people something to vote FOR rather than vote against.
How many people, realistically, would vote for a white male Democrat but NOT a non-white female?
Far too many. It doesn’t mean they’re going to admit, even to themselves, that the reason they’re making that choice is that they hate women. But, unconscious bias is a helluva thing.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/hidden-sexism/
Fuck the people who won’t vote for her along gender or racial lines. I don’t want to try and appease them.
Would you rather appease them and win, or not appease them and lose?
Appeasing them is dangerous. I see this line of thinking a lot, but it has never led the dems to victory and it has repeatedly compromised our own values and degraded trust in the party. We cannot and should not cater to the worst people in the room at the expense of our own morals. It is wrong, but it is also a losing strategy.
Right… We become beholden to the laggards of social progress because we think we can’t win without them, and we alienate and stagnate the progress of those doing the most.
Appeasing them could be dangerous depending on how it’s done, and to what extent. But, what if the appeasement is merely choosing a man for her VP? Maybe that’s all it will take.
We cannot and should not cater to the worst people in the room
The worst people in the room are voting for Trump. This is catering to people in the room who are on the fence and might need a nudge. You can stick to your principles and ignore them, or you can consider their opinions. Ignoring them might mean losing the presidential race. And if you lose, then the purity of your agenda and message is meaningless because the other side wins. And, in this election, the other side winning might mean permanent damage to the whole democratic process.
Would you rather appease them and win, or not appease them and lose?
Sacrificing your values to win is no true victory.
Here’s the way I see it:
If you’re right and there are too many closet racists/sexists for a black woman to win, and we run her anyway, then we lose. If we don’t run her in order to appease the racists and we “win” we’ve actually still lost because we sacrificed a core value. That sacrifice will haunt the Democrats as the decay that was already happening will accelerate.
It’s the same cowardice that has plagued the Democrats for decades. Choosing appeasement for political convenience over and over, each time removing a section of their spines until there’s none of it left. Do not let fear control you.
Sacrificing your values to win is no true victory.
Holding on to your values without compromise and losing is no true victory either. In fact, it’s true defeat.
Is a tainted victory better than a complete loss? I’d argue it is, especially in this case where a loss might mean permanent damage to the institutions of the country by a fascist.
Maybe you’d prefer to hold your head up high while you’re being trucked off to a re-education camp. I just don’t want re-education camps to exist.
I think you skipped part of the argument. I’m sure those people exist, but what about the number of disengaged voters who were over Joe Biden or disagreed with him on various issues? I think the number of votes lost because of race or gender is not 0, but the gains through reinvigoration are far, far higher.
I think the number of votes lost because of race or gender is not 0, but the gains through reinvigoration are far, far higher.
We don’t know, that’s what makes this scary. I’m more pessimistic. IMO the whole reason Trump got elected in the first place was backlash over the first black president. I think the US is a lot more sexist and racist than people want to admit. Even people who don’t think they’re racist or sexist will still show huge cognitive biases in an unconscious bias test. So, they’re not going to say “I’m not voting for Kamala because she’s a non-white woman”, they’ll say “I’m not voting for her because she’s underqualified” or “I don’t like her record as a prosecutor” or “she doesn’t seem like someone I’d want to have a beer with”.
I see your points here. I don’t think they are wrong, but I have a different opinion on Trump’s election.
I think the onset of social media created a real shit storm of misinformation particularly during the Obama years. I don’t think it was backlash because he was black (though I admit this is not knowable, just my opinion), but more because of the overall grievance with how things operate.
You can’t really separate race out of the equation, because I think Democrats had good messaging showing the effects of institutional racism and sexism against minority groups, particularly at a systemic level. However, there was a massive concentration of wealth in America at the same time.
Trumo came along and his message wasn’t really that novel. He just said hey, this shit sucks for everyone, not just minorities. White people are getting screwed too. And I’m the guy that’s going to fight for the rural voter.
I take your point that it’s not outright racism. It’s not someone saying I’m not voting for this person solely because they are X, it’s some end around way of going about it. But I think Trump played the White Greivance card and I think Democrats are getting a little better at leaning into it. The unfortunate truth is that both things are totally true. White people are getting screwed (concentration of wealth to hover levels) AND minorities groups are getting screwed (because of systematic racist effects that are still residual in daily life for them).
As I’m talking this out, I’m not sure where to land. There’s multiple pieces here that intersect with race, but I’m not sure they are the core tenant. I think there might be some voters who realize that everyone is getting screwed, but maybe worry that Harris would prioritize racial issues before overall everyone getting boned issues. Maybe that’s the group?
Didn’t come to a great conclusion, but your comment had some layers to it so it got me thinking.
but more because of the overall grievance with how things operate.
I think this was the excuse, but the real reason was that Obama was black.
[Trump] came along and his message wasn’t really that novel. He just said hey, this shit sucks for everyone, not just minorities. White people are getting screwed too. And I’m the guy that’s going to fight for the rural voter.
Trump came along and said “show us your birth certificate!” He was the original birther, which was clearly a racist conspiracy theory.
“I want him to show his birth certificate. There is something on that birth certificate that he doesn’t like,” he said in an appearance on ABC’s “The View.” On “Fox & Friends,” Trump insisted Obama spent “millions of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from this issue,” and floated the idea on Bill O’Reilly’s show that the certificate could say the president is a Muslim.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-perpetuated-birther-movement-years/story?id=42138176
This is 2011. This was 5 years before he became president. He wasn’t even running for president yet. He didn’t run in the 2012 presidential election. His main focus was questioning whether Obama was actually American, and whether he was a secret muslim. In other words, he was already the focal point for all the racists in the country who hated having a black president.
The funny thing is, although Trump is clearly a racist, and has been a racist all his life (see the Central Park 5 stuff as one tiny example), IMO he really threw his energy into the project because he was upset at Obama making fun of him at the White House correspondents dinner. Of course, that’s also tied in with racism. It’s not just that someone made fun of him, it’s that a black man made fun of him.
Sure, by the time he actually officially started running for president in 2015, he had a list of other grievances, and they weren’t all overtly racist. But, his entry into national politics in 2011 was essentially focused on racism against Obama. That’s where people first started noticing him.
The racists, as OP mentioned, would have voted for Trump regardless. The Dems need to convince the moderate, undecided voters
Not at all. The Nazis would have voted for Trump regardless. But, there are a lot of biased people out there who wouldn’t even think of themselves as racist or sexist, they’ll just “have doubts”.
Unconscious bias is a major issue.
Anybody right now who is undecided is not moderate. The moderates are all already voting against Trump. Anybody undecided is either a very-low-information voter, who mostly gets their news from TikTok or conspiracy forums, or they’re a very right-wing voter who hates the democrats with a passion, but are having trouble getting over their dislike of Trump too.
I don’t disagree with you, but let’s not forget apathetic voters… people that were just disenchanted with both of the old guys and wouldn’t vote for either.
Surely Kamala will get some traction with women.
Definitely, I just wonder how that will compare with the sexist vote (both men and women (but mostly men)).
If they chose to vote, sure. Plenty of them that would have stayed home are now going to be highly motivated.
Both a black guy and a woman have won the popular vote before.
That’s nice.
Don’t also forget the liability Biden had with Arab-Americans over Gaza. Kamala is not Commander-in-Chief, so even though she’s part of the administration she carries none of that baggage.
Can’t wait to see what the disinformation brigade cooks up for Lemmy now that they can’t keep complaining about Gaza.
I get the issue over Gaza, and I guess that could make some people stay home. But, can anybody honestly think that the guy whose signature policy was a ban on muslims entering the US was going to be better on Gaza than Biden?
Anyhow, you’re right that a change in leader offers an opportunity for a new policy on Gaza. I’m sure Netanyahu will redouble his efforts to get Trump elected. OTOH, I’m not convinced Kamala will necessarily be any better than Biden. The US has been backing Israel for decades, vetoing any UN security council resolution that touches Israel, etc. I’d love it if Harris cut ties to Israel, but I can’t see it happening.
Oh, of course U.S. policy at large won’t change. It hasn’t for decades. The difference here, for the election at least, is that Kamala doesn’t have to balance words vs actions. Biden and Trump have both lost Arab-Americans. Kamala doesn’t have that challenge.
Could we tap Liz Cheney to be our Vance wrangler?
Not a candidate, no, KH will still need a VP.
I just mean a wrangler. Someone who’s sole purpose is to disrupt JD Vance anyway possible…
Maybe she could:
- Follow JD around, constantly whispering that she’s going to grab him by his pussy
- Send him noose shaped flowers and cakes to decorate his new office
- Pay Clint Howard to randomly walk by Vance every day & accuse him of ruining his brother’s directing career
- Leave a conspicuous trail of classified documents behind him
- Lewdly suggest she would have her relations with her attractive child, on camera
- Smear fecal matter on his desk & let Pelosi call of his efforts a bowl of poopoo
- Constantly make contact & remind JD who her father is.
I think Liz Cheney would be awesome at all of these things. As long as we don’t “elect” her, what could go wrong?
As entertaining as the Cheney vs Vance debate would be, she voted an awful lot to support Trump policies. Guessing she’s happy to wait for the Trump collapse, then offer herself up as a return to a more traditional GOP.
That’s a really intelligent point… much more intelligent than mine…
Guess all this craziness has left me with the heebie-jeebies.
The only thing better would have been if Biden had resigned to let people see her in the actual role, but this works.
I used to be an advocate for this, until I realized that in this political environment, whoever President Harris picks for VP would need both House and Senate approval, and this House will take a page from Mitch’s book and simply not bother. So you would have your first female and mixed-race President, in a country full of armed bigots, and if they get to her, Mike Johnson becomes President and can start Project 2025 early.
I would love for Kamala Harris to be more charismatic and less ineffectual than she currently is, I’ll vote for whoever is not Trump. Now is the perfect opportunity to reinvigorate the campaign and turn everything upside down, but I’m not optimistic. They’ll probably trot out Hillary Clinton again if it’s not Harris, and it’ll be a replay of 2016.
Now you have someone who has not been seen since she was elected VP with no time at all to prepare her for a presedential run. You will get Trump again because the dems are so fucking stupid and stabbed Biden in the back this late.
You think she hasn’t been preparing for 2028?
She hasnt been doing anything since becoming VP. Biden could have had a sack of rice as VP and the result would be the same.
That’s how most VPs act.
Biden and Pence still had public showing and were talked about sometimes. Harris was completely invisible. And most dont randomly jump in less than 4 month before the election.
Ah cool she actually did do something. Just that none of it really got traction or would convince anyone to vote for her. 4 months just isnt enough to build up a candidate best known for shitty prosecution work
Wasn’t there at least one major news cycle shitting on Harris for going to foreign countries to address migrants and telling them we can’t handle the amount coming in right now? Pretty sure that was super visible… Unless we’re in double standards world now and you’re just talking out of your ass.
Oh cool, so she hates immigrants as much as Trump then. That will make more people who dislike Trump want to vote for her. Have fun living in project 2025.
Pro-choice is poison at the General election. It does well as a ballot initiative, but the reality is that very few pro-choice moderates and right-leaning people will change their vote over the issue, whereas pro-lifers are far and away the strongest single-issue voting group.
If Harris and Trump were identical in every way except their stance on abortion, how many Dem voters would flip for Trump in order to vote pro-choice? Would you?
Because millions of people who are otherwise liberal-leaning vote based on their pro-lifer position.
The biggest reason Dems got a Roe boost in 2022 was pro-lifer voters who didn’t feel the need to vote Republican because they’d won and could focus on other issues. But running a campaign based on restoring Roe undoes that bump.
That’s not what the data tells us. If that was the case the abortion referendums would have failed while Democrats got a push. But they didn’t. They consistently succeeded in even the reddest areas. Abortion protections gets people out to vote.
Abortion refferendums are easy.
A pro-choice gun nut won’t vote Democrat because he cares more about guns than the right to choose. But when you put it as a ballot initiative he doesn’t have to weigh it against anything else.
The thing about single-issue voters is that they can swing elections even though they’re a minority. The GOP has survived for decades by embracing the pro-life and pro-gun voters. These are massive groups with voters on one side who will base the entirety of their vote on the issue, while the other side of the debate doesn’t.
The GOP has survived for decades because we vote for land, not people. They consistently hold majorities in government with a minority of the population.
2022 should have been a red wave, but wasn’t. There are proposals to make draconian anti-abortion laws national and override state protections.
I wouldn’t underestimate its power to reengage voters, especially the youth vote.
nothing got sidetracked it just was never dealt with or talked about in a meaningful discussion or in any way in the last fifty years of Biden’s career
just like the minimum wage is not enough to cover the astronomical costs of food and housing and was not even brought up during the debate
yes lets support a prosecutor that represents the police who want their boots shined with our tongues
Propose someone else who can win.
I know there’s a whole chorus of lemmings who cannot fathom uttering anything but criticism, but maybe if you tried you could have an actual idea of your own?
I know people will say this is bad, a new campaign will be rushed, etc. But I think we all know Biden was an excuse for many not to vote, or worse, to vote for Trump. Withdrawing will be his legacy when we win, not his failing.
Thank you President Biden. You are a hero.
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honestly you have a chance to do better here now
